Simon Baron-Cohen: Is AS/HFA a disability?

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Is Asperger’s syndrome/High-Functioning Autism necessarily a disability?
Simon Baron-Cohen
Departments of Experimental Psychology and Psychiatry,
University of Cambridge

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/71 ... bility.htm

An older article, but one that perhaps needs revisiting as DSM committees are contemplating the new DSM edition....


What do you think??

In my case, AS is definitely a disability. It is for my AS BF also.

We were both tested using the Vineland II and we both have reports documenting that our functional IQ is under 70. Mine is 60. It also says this is due to AS. (My verbal IQ is 131, however.)

I'm on disability benefits due to AS. I couldn't lose them because I couldn't work, so I hope that AS is never classified as "not a disability."

However, Baron-Cohen states that it is "not ALWAYS a disability." That, I agree with. There are plenty of software engineers and those in other careers making big money that have AS. I read them here all the time.

Because of your, and your BF's, IQs*** - you are not techniquely AS, so you would be exempt any way.

People in UK do get disability for AS, but not in US (not clued in to other countires - but please educate me!). The diagnosis is hardly worth pursuing in US except for the benefit of increased self-awareness.

Here in US I have got to earn a living, but there is little tolerance in the workplace. Thus I am very interested in pursuing (at least initially) "inforced tolerance"

Once my strengths are appreciated (job competence) and my weekness ignored (watercooler networking & fashion statements), then I could work with far less stress and bullying.

***While IQs are good predictor of school success, and more recently, workplace success - I have a problem with the common practice of IQs being extrapolated to include conginitive abilities. I have meet too many people with low IQs and good to excellent cognitive abilities. If we succeed in the pro-ND movement, you may find yourself able to pursue employment if so inclined.

She just said she was tested and diagnosed - who are you to tell her she's not 'technically' AS?



whitetiger just told you she's on SSDI for AS and her avatar shows her as posting from Oregon. Last time I checked, Oregon was well within the borders of the continental US. So, clearly, US residents with Asperger Syndrome can and do qualify for disability benefits. As with any other condition, whether or not it qualifies for SSDI is a determination made on a case-by-case basis.

Temper, temper, Dharma Comedian, but thank you for defending what you see as an attack on Whitetiger.

The DSM IV (about which I am interest in your opinion) "tells" her AND the shrink who tested her (as well as her BF). Its not me who wrote the criteria nor designed the IQ tests which rendered those scores. Please note:



An IQ of greater than one standard deviation (15 points) from the mean (100) of the test is a delay. The BF is two SDs (30 points) from the mean. Whitetiger’s IQ even a greater distance from the test mean. If she & her BF have a diagnosis it would technically be autistism - not AS



It ain't AS that is getting SSDI in the US of A, but autism certainly does qualify.

If you are unhappy with the DSM IV, committees are now meeting to produce the new edition. Your input is important! As is Whitetiger's and her BF. I want it written by US not ABOUT US!!

I don't think you read what she said. She said she had a FUNCTIONAL IQ of that, not the other kind of IQ.

AS/HFA can be a disability. When it's not I don't get the point of even diagnosing it but to each his own.

Yes, thanks guys

My BF and I both have above average IQ's. The "functional IQ score" is how you function in life, and we function as if ret*d, quite honestly. Now, the two of us together can play a mean scrabble game and my BF is a chess master. But, we have to focus very hard to do basic things to get through the day and to converse with people and we often need services to help.

In the UK, HFA and Asperger's are classed as disabilites in accordance with something we have called the Disability Discrimination Act. However, I think it depends on how you are affected by it. It hinders me in the sense that I couldn't work in a call centre or deal with loads of customers, but I can still work. I find it difficult to make friends, but in the end, somehow I do it, so, all in all, I don't think having an ASD disables me all that much. A friend of mine, however, who has Asperger's syndrome, is significantly affected in the sense that he gets Disability Living Allowance (DLA) as he is actually unable to work as it upsets him far too much. So for him, I think it is a disability as he doesn't really socialise much either (he only really talks to his girlfriend, me and my boyfriend) and spends much of his time at home. He will only venture out somewhere if he is going to a gig or to see us, and if he goes to a gig, he has to have either his girlfriend or my boyfriend there at the very least otherwise he doesn't feel comfortable at all and it upsets him (he has the same reaction as trying to go to work).

Why is everyone jumping on me.

You act as if I am insulting whitetiger - what's up with that?

1. There is not a DX of HFA - it is either autism or not. It is currently just an insulting trend to call some people HFA and others LFA. Maybe it makes the HFAs feel superior, but only at the expense of those considered LFA. Do you honestly believe that autistics cannot have high cognition? That would be neuroelitism.

2. Why would it be insulting even if I said that WT did have autism - is there something wrong with a person with autism that you would take it as an insult? What do you all think autism is???

3. The Vineland calling it functional IQ does not mean there is no delay. The DSM IV states that in asperger "E. There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self-help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction), and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

4. I am not saying she has autism, the info she fed me about her nearly-3-SD-below-the-test-mean score led me to assume so based on the current criteria for distinguishing between autism and asperger's syndrome. That, and the fact that she is receiving government support (aspies don't get that in US), led me to assume she had autism. The key item she has not shared is if she had a language delay as a toddler. So what if she DOES have autism? Does that diminish her in some way? Would you no longer like if she did? What the heck are you all saying?

So, since everyone is off topic because all anyone can comment on in this thread regards false accusations of me not accurately reading whitetiger's posts and implying that autism is an insult, I will check out. This discussion is not worth my time.

Ciao

I don't even have to read the article to tell you it's not. It's only a disability if one allows it to be. I credit AS for me being an honor student without studying and I partially credit it for my extreme passion in my interests, allowing me to be better and more driven. I avoid telling most people in real life about it because I don't want people to make excuses for me. I want them to think I'm weird because I'm me, not because of AS. In fact, I wish I didn't know I had it or know what it was, so it couldn't be used as an excuse to not understand people. There will never be a cure because it's not a disease!

ASPERGER SYNDROME/AUTISM IS NOT DISABILITY.IT DOES NOT DIMINISH A PERSON AS A HUMAN BEING.IT IS ONLY A DIFFERENCE AND AS WE ALL KNOW,PEOPLE ARE ALL DIFFERENT(everybody is unique).AUTISM IS A GIFT. PEOPLE WITH "THIS ABILITY" and not disability ARE MORE INTELLIGENT AND COMPETENT THAN WE MIGHT REALIZE...

lets take this situation as an example...


what if all people around you cannot walk but you can?
would you consider that as a disability?The disability not to walk? >.<

Totally agree with this...and in fact,even though there will be a cure, would you imagine yourself without AS?that's a very hard thing to think of..

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-~_yOu jUst wOuLdn't bE yOu wiThoUt yoUr aSpie wAys_~-

Do not confuse AS with autism, autism is a severe brain damage which is maybe some of the worst you can have, not just because of being so closed up in their own world so they almost can't see whats happening around them, but because they are also violent, down syndrome people are gods in comparison, and AS people.. no comparison. 3/4 people with autsim-HFA (not including AS) have mental retardation too, its proved. AS CAN also be a disability, like social interaction, routines, etc.

woah woah woah, you getting it all wrong here. Classical autism isn't a "brain damage" because brain damage is caused by things like accidents. And they're not all "so violent", I know 2 auties (one low functioning one high) and they're the nicest people you'd meet, the low functioning one is actually pretty laid back from what I've seen.

Autism,Asperger Syndrome and Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS) are the three main forms of ASD(autism spectrum disorder) so they are like brothers and sisters >.<

The average functional IQ of people with AS is around 60 to 70 IIRC (and I usually do), but the skill pattern is usually more splintered than someone with an academic and functional IQ of 60 to 70. Meaning, some bits might be better than someone with an academic IQ of 60, whereas others might be lower.

The DSM-IV-TR allows mild mental retardation in AS if it's picked up after the first few years of life (that's the point of that criterion. These things can't be there in the first three years, and that's one distinguishing point between it and AD, but if someone has an academic IQ of 60 in grade 2, who didn't have any other delays (speech, self-help, imagination, etcetera), that's allowed, and they are then given a diagnosis of AS. It's stated in the DSM-IV-TR itself in the expanded text).

I can only speak for my personal case, unless I'm quoting some study, and HFA is one in my case.

In Oz, only 12% of individuals with primarily AS work. That's an insanely low number.