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hyperlexian
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21 Jul 2012, 12:53 am

here is a great article about the utter lack of effectiveness of weight loss programs:

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An oft-quoted but rarely cited statistic is that diets fail 95 percent of the time. That figure dates back to a 1959 study of 100 people. The study was conducted by Dr. Albert Stunkard, now a researcher with the University of Pennsylvania, and Mavis McLaren-Hume1. It concluded that "(m)ost obese persons will not stay in treatment, most will not lose weight, and of those who do lose weight, most will regain it."2 It was a brazen statement at the time, when doctors and other experts thought that treating obesity was as simple as handing a patient a "plan," and it was likely accurate. It may still be accurate, though we do not know.

Two 1992 reports from the National Institutes of Health have been quoted as corroborating this 95 percent failure rate.3 The executive statement of one report asserts: "Data show that many individuals regain one-third to two-thirds of intentionally lost weight within 1 year and regain the rest of the weight within 5 years."4 While this report stops short of stating a figure, it has been used in support of the 95 percent assertion because it references several studies with different but dismal results, some even worse than 5 percent success:

Kramer and colleagues (1989) found that less than 3 percent of subjects were at or below posttreatment weight on all followup visits. (sic) Other researchers have documented similar findings (Graham et al., 1983; Stalanos et al., 1984). With respect to obesity treatment in adolescents, Rees (1990) reported that 85 to 95 percent of patients regain at least as much weight as they lost and Stalonas and colleagues (1984) found evidence that patients regain even more weight than the initial weight lost.5
This NIH report also references the analysis of David Garner and Susan Wooley, a 51-page review of diet research and diet failure, that has also been used to support the 95 percent claim and concludes there is no "scientific justification for the continued use of dietary treatments of obesity. . . . Most participants regain the weight lost. The inevitability of this result is often obscured by the use of follow-up periods insufficient to capture the later phases of weight regain."6


http://www.bigfatfacts.com/


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ValentineWiggin
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21 Jul 2012, 4:20 am

Because the fattiez can't stop stuffing their fatty faces with Twinkies!! !


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Marcia
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21 Jul 2012, 5:33 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Because the fattiez can't stop stuffing their fatty faces with Twinkies!! !


Your contribution made me feel like Father Ted explaining perspective to Father Dougal...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vbd3E6tK2U[/youtube]

Sorry about the extra click required, but it will be worth it! :wink:

Edited to add: this isn't really about ValentineWiggin's comment. It's more about pretty much the whole thread so far.



Wolfheart
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21 Jul 2012, 9:00 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
We can debate about this forever, the fact remains that nobody wants to be obese, just as nobody wants to be viewed as unattractive.

wrong and... wrong. many people are perfectly happy being obese. i am afraid you're viewing it through your skewed view of it being lesser. i thought we got past that, and that you understood they may not be interested in working towards YOUR goals. not everyone finds muscles attractive.


That is why the weight loss industry in fitness is a growing industry? That's why programs like P90X made $420 million in one year? There are thousands of people who are getting in shape and making the change for themselves every year.

If someone has a great physique and has put in a great amount of effort and countless hours, do you not respect that something as such as that requires a great amount of dedication and discipline?

no, they make money because it doesn't really work, so people have to sink their money into the next best thing. there is a 95 to 98% failure rate for diets in the 5 year mark, and even worse at the 20 year mark. that is a lot of money to be gained, as people become repeat customers.

i respect dedication and discipline for anything, including winning video games, creating Z-scale model trains, memorising the roadmaps of the UK, etc. i don't put weightlifting and such above that.

i don't actually consider muscles to be a "great physique"; i can take that or leave it. definitely if someone is super-vain about how their body looks, it would be a turn-off though.


Of course they work, P90X has sold millions and is still a very popular active community with thousands and thousand of people who have achieved low body fat percentages. P90X is endorsed by Professional mixed martial artists and it is used by many people that have professional jobs. Don't insinuate against a program until you have tried it because I can bet and I would be willing to bet that on the first workout of the P90X program classic, you would be panting and feeling the most intense workout you have ever felt.



Shau
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21 Jul 2012, 10:24 am

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/The_Lancet_ ... as_smoking

Whatever one's stance on the impact of obesity on human mortality might be, nobody has got any excuses when it comes to sitting on their ass!



1000Knives
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21 Jul 2012, 10:25 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Because the fattiez can't stop stuffing their fatty faces with Twinkies!! !


Speaking of which, ever have a deep fried Twinkie? It's amazing.



hanyo
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21 Jul 2012, 10:36 am

Shau wrote:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/The_Lancet_study_suggests_inactivity_now_as_deadly_as_smoking

Whatever one's stance on the impact of obesity on human mortality might be, nobody has got any excuses when it comes to sitting on their ass!


I'm very sedentary. I don't like to leave the house or move my body a lot and my heart beating too fast makes me anxious. On the rare occasions I try to start some sort of exercise routine I either forget to do it or end up in too much pain to do it. I try to go for walks but it's hard for me to get out of the house every day.



1000Knives
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21 Jul 2012, 10:43 am

Mark Rippetoe quote....

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…we have not spent the last 65 million or so years finely honing our physiology to watch Oprah. Like it or not, we are the product of a very long process of adaptation to a harsh physical existence, and the past couple centuries of comparative ease and plenty are not enough time to change our genome. We humans are at our best when our existence mirrors, or at least simulates, the one we are still genetically adapted to live. And that is the purpose of exercise.



Shau
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21 Jul 2012, 10:46 am

hanyo wrote:
I'm very sedentary. I don't like to leave the house or move my body a lot and my heart beating too fast makes me anxious. On the rare occasions I try to start some sort of exercise routine I either forget to do it or end up in too much pain to do it. I try to go for walks but it's hard for me to get out of the house every day.


You can be in luck still. Do you fidget a lot? Do you tend to tense up your body's muscles quite a bit when you get excited? Are you constantly wiggling your leg? Studies done on this stuff have shown that the amount of exercise they can add up to over the course of a day can be quite considerable, and might be the explanation for a lot of cases of highly sedentary people that appear to be in decent physical shape, especially if you can get a 15 minute walk in there every couple of days.



hanyo
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21 Jul 2012, 11:19 am

Shau wrote:

You can be in luck still. Do you fidget a lot? Do you tend to tense up your body's muscles quite a bit when you get excited? Are you constantly wiggling your leg? Studies done on this stuff have shown that the amount of exercise they can add up to over the course of a day can be quite considerable, and might be the explanation for a lot of cases of highly sedentary people that appear to be in decent physical shape, especially if you can get a 15 minute walk in there every couple of days.


I don't think I fidget a lot or do things like shake my leg but I tend to have a lot of anxiety. I think if I ever got on antianxiety medications and it went away I'd weigh over 200 pounds.

When I first got my kitten between extra anxiety about him and taking care of him preventing me from eating and making me forget to eat I lost 10 pounds.



hyperlexian
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21 Jul 2012, 11:36 pm

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
We can debate about this forever, the fact remains that nobody wants to be obese, just as nobody wants to be viewed as unattractive.

wrong and... wrong. many people are perfectly happy being obese. i am afraid you're viewing it through your skewed view of it being lesser. i thought we got past that, and that you understood they may not be interested in working towards YOUR goals. not everyone finds muscles attractive.


That is why the weight loss industry in fitness is a growing industry? That's why programs like P90X made $420 million in one year? There are thousands of people who are getting in shape and making the change for themselves every year.

If someone has a great physique and has put in a great amount of effort and countless hours, do you not respect that something as such as that requires a great amount of dedication and discipline?

no, they make money because it doesn't really work, so people have to sink their money into the next best thing. there is a 95 to 98% failure rate for diets in the 5 year mark, and even worse at the 20 year mark. that is a lot of money to be gained, as people become repeat customers.

i respect dedication and discipline for anything, including winning video games, creating Z-scale model trains, memorising the roadmaps of the UK, etc. i don't put weightlifting and such above that.

i don't actually consider muscles to be a "great physique"; i can take that or leave it. definitely if someone is super-vain about how their body looks, it would be a turn-off though.


Of course they work, P90X has sold millions and is still a very popular active community with thousands and thousand of people who have achieved low body fat percentages. P90X is endorsed by Professional mixed martial artists and it is used by many people that have professional jobs. Don't insinuate against a program until you have tried it because I can bet and I would be willing to bet that on the first workout of the P90X program classic, you would be panting and feeling the most intense workout you have ever felt.

no diet has been shown to be effective by scientific studies EXCEPT Weight Watchers, and the benchmark of "success" was lowered for the purposes of the study. when P90X publishes peer-reviewed studies, i would accept it could work. so far, there is nothing to show it could work better than any other program.

it doesn't matter who endorses it - they get kickbacks and will shill anything. do you get paid by them?


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hyperlexian
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21 Jul 2012, 11:37 pm

Shau wrote:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/The_Lancet_study_suggests_inactivity_now_as_deadly_as_smoking

Whatever one's stance on the impact of obesity on human mortality might be, nobody has got any excuses when it comes to sitting on their ass!

i agree that sedentary lifestyles can be dangerous for a person's health. getting exercise is definitely a good idea.


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nostromo
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22 Jul 2012, 2:07 am

My wife has been doing calorie counting and walking and lost 4-5Kgs over the last month or two. She doesn't call it a diet, its just knowing what she's eating, being aware of portion sizes and substituting less energy dense foods, e.g. she likes to eat biscuits with cups of tea, she worked out its mainly a tactile thing so munches on carrots now.



ValentineWiggin
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22 Jul 2012, 4:45 pm

What's the goal of the "calorie-counting" unless it's to limit said calories, aka dieting?

Curious.


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xxZeromancerlovexx
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22 Jul 2012, 4:58 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Because the fattiez can't stop stuffing their fatty faces with Twinkies!! !


Girl, I weigh over 200 pounds and I HATE Twinkies.


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1000Knives
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22 Jul 2012, 4:59 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
What's the goal of the "calorie-counting" unless it's to limit said calories, aka dieting?

Curious.


It's basically half a diet. Or just being aware of calories. IE, how water has zero calories and cola has 100 per 8oz, so if you do not want to gain weight, do not drink Coca Cola as it's unneeded calories. Basically, it's a diet without as clear parameters.