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weight loss and its issues

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hyperlexian
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15 Jul 2012, 12:22 am

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^very good point, but who are YOU to choose someone's challenges for them? not you specifically, but any person. if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


Because if we aren't challenged, what will challenge us when we are in a negative mindset? It's up to us as people to challenge each other, encourage each other and to grow.

no, it really isn't. we choose our own challenges, and that's the way it should be.

i could decide for you that your challenge should be to learn some compassion by walking in another person's shoes, like.... hmmmmmm you could become morbidly obese over the course of a couple of years then take the weight off in a healthy way (and keep it off, of course). but it would not make sense for me to judge what your areas of need happen to be, and to make decisions as to what you need to work on. if i did that, then i am deciding that i know better than you do about what is best for you. choosing someone else's challenges for them is an arrogant decision.


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ValentineWiggin
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15 Jul 2012, 12:25 am

hyperlexian wrote:
plus i am a supertaster ....


That's incredible!
Can I be one?
Do we get to wear CAPES? :D


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hyperlexian
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15 Jul 2012, 12:27 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
plus i am a supertaster ....


That's incredible!
Can I be one?
Do we get to wear CAPES? :D

heeheehee it's a big proportion of the population or something. you just have to count your tastebuds in a given area. but it's a reasonable guess if you detest broccoli, mealy/pasty foods, sour foods, overly bitter foods, etc.


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hyperlexian
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15 Jul 2012, 12:28 am

Wolfheart wrote:
If anything, it seems that a certain group on this forum don't want the males on the spectrum to improve themselves as far as I am concerned.

wait, so you were in a thread about "what females want" and trying to help MEN to improve themselves? do you see how this does not make sense?


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ValentineWiggin
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15 Jul 2012, 12:30 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
If anything, it seems that a certain group on this forum don't want the males on the spectrum to improve themselves as far as I am concerned.

wait, so you were in a thread about "what females want" and trying to help MEN to improve themselves? do you see how this does not make sense?


Pft. Man hater.


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Wolfheart
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15 Jul 2012, 12:33 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^very good point, but who are YOU to choose someone's challenges for them? not you specifically, but any person. if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


Because if we aren't challenged, what will challenge us when we are in a negative mindset? It's up to us as people to challenge each other, encourage each other and to grow.

no, it really isn't. we choose our own challenges, and that's the way it should be.

i could decide for you that your challenge should be to learn some compassion by walking in another person's shoes, like.... hmmmmmm you could become morbidly obese over the course of a couple of years then take the weight off in a healthy way (and keep it off, of course). but it would not make sense for me to judge what your areas of need happen to be, and to make decisions as to what you need to work on. if i did that, then i am deciding that i know better than you do about what is best for you. choosing someone else's challenges for them is an arrogant decision.


If you are born into poverty and you want to amass an amount of finacial security for your family, that's a challenge that is born. If you are born being told something is harder for you and that it can't be achieved, it is an even greater challenge. Nature dictates what our challenges our for us, life isn't fair and that's something that we must accept. If people don't naturally develop to the standards of the norm, people are expected to adapt and to grow by society if they want to achieve and overcome those goals.

Some battles aren't chosen but forced on to us.



edgewaters
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15 Jul 2012, 12:35 am

hyperlexian wrote:
i think she wasn't implying ill will. "concern trolling" is pretending to genuinely care about a cause or someone's personal well-being, while actually holding contempt for them.

this is a very good blog post about concern trolling:

http://fatheffalump.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -trolling/


I don't think it's that either (and contempt is ill will).

But I think you had it here:

hyperlexian wrote:
if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


The problem is wrong context. And everyone is entitled to make mistakes, particularly when their intent was good but the execution was flawed or too enthusiastic or what have you. I am sometimes naieve about people but I'd rather err that way than the other.



Last edited by edgewaters on 15 Jul 2012, 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

hyperlexian
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15 Jul 2012, 12:36 am

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^very good point, but who are YOU to choose someone's challenges for them? not you specifically, but any person. if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


Because if we aren't challenged, what will challenge us when we are in a negative mindset? It's up to us as people to challenge each other, encourage each other and to grow.

no, it really isn't. we choose our own challenges, and that's the way it should be.

i could decide for you that your challenge should be to learn some compassion by walking in another person's shoes, like.... hmmmmmm you could become morbidly obese over the course of a couple of years then take the weight off in a healthy way (and keep it off, of course). but it would not make sense for me to judge what your areas of need happen to be, and to make decisions as to what you need to work on. if i did that, then i am deciding that i know better than you do about what is best for you. choosing someone else's challenges for them is an arrogant decision.


If you are born into poverty and you want to amass an amount of finacial security for your family, that's a challenge that is born. If you are born being told something is harder for you and that it can't be achieved, it is an even greater challenge. Nature dictates what our challenges our for us, life isn't fair and that's something that we must accept. If people don't naturally develop to the standards of the norm, people are expected to adapt and to grow by society if they want to achieve and overcome those goals in life.

Some battles aren't chosen but forced on to us.

you're still not getting it. you want other people to take on YOUR goals because you think that is best for them. it isn't. those are your goals, not theirs. maybe they are trying to learn to socialise, or ride a bike, or how to budget, or learn refined manners. but you've decided that since they are fat then they should strive to "improve" themselves, when in fact you are actually no better than they are. just different.


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Wolfheart
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15 Jul 2012, 12:36 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
If anything, it seems that a certain group on this forum don't want the males on the spectrum to improve themselves as far as I am concerned.

wait, so you were in a thread about "what females want" and trying to help MEN to improve themselves? do you see how this does not make sense?


This topic has gone way off thread a while ago and to be honest I don't know caused it to go off-topic. You would have closed this thread for going off topic pages and pages ago if that was the problem.



hyperlexian
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15 Jul 2012, 12:38 am

Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
If anything, it seems that a certain group on this forum don't want the males on the spectrum to improve themselves as far as I am concerned.

wait, so you were in a thread about "what females want" and trying to help MEN to improve themselves? do you see how this does not make sense?


This topic has gone way off thread a while ago and to be honest I don't know caused it to go off-topic. You would have closed this thread for going off topic pages and pages ago if that was the problem.

you were using that as a defense as to why you were insisting that fat people should lose weight. and i am pointing out that it has nothing to do with you giving advice to men in particular. you are turning this into a gender debate where there is no divide.


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hyperlexian
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15 Jul 2012, 12:39 am

edgewaters wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think she wasn't implying ill will. "concern trolling" is pretending to genuinely care about a cause or someone's personal well-being, while actually holding contempt for them.

this is a very good blog post about concern trolling:

http://fatheffalump.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -trolling/


I don't think it's that either (and contempt is ill will).

But I think you had it here:

hyperlexian wrote:
if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


The problem is wrong context. And everyone is entitled to make mistakes, particularly when their intent was good but the execution was flawed or too enthusiastic or what have you.

do you think he doesn't have contempt for fat people? maybe you're right.

Wolfheart, do you think fat people are equally as worthy as athletic people?


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15 Jul 2012, 12:43 am

Eh I'm fat and honestly its rarely been the reason for my misadventures in dating.

I've also been long friends with a girl who is overweight and she "only dates men and women who are skinny" to quote her and shes never had a problem finding dates or sex.

On topic of willpower and obesity, I think it does play a factor. But problem comes from the fact that how does one measure willpower?

To date we don't really have a good way measuring it. So stating that someone has lack of willpower is kind of hard to say without a standard to go off of. I mean I may have hell of a lot of willpower because I'm always hungry because of a misshapened valve in my stomach. Most doctor will tell me that its amazing that I've managed to stay under 300 without taking meds.

Then again I might have very little willpower maybe due to the fact that my body has gotten use to the feeling of hunger. Because there is no reliable way of measuring willpower, we can't say whether one person has more willpower than another.


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15 Jul 2012, 12:45 am

DogsWithoutHorses wrote:
right
and there are at least 3 commenters on this thread who felt the need to share their "heath advice", I didn't mean to imply it was just Wolfheart, though clearly it is a pet cause (which a lot of us have, this one just doesn't fit here)

my issue is really that it's irrelevant, inflammatory, and just so gosh darn repetitive.

Is there a heath and wellness sub or anything like that on WP?


This thread wasn't even about physical attractiveness!!


There is a health section, but it is not overly active.

I posted on the topic because I work in the field, so I have a professional interest in this. That's why I can understand exactly what Hyper is saying because I have heard the same thing many times over from clients. I see too many people only adressing the physical side of it and never bothering to adress the psychological or neurological side, probably because it such an emotionally charged topic, many find it difficult to acknowledge all the factors and instead choose to focus on a few.

I don't think L&D is the place for these kinds of discussions, however mods have not stepped in to keep everyone on topic.


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15 Jul 2012, 12:51 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Wolfheart wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
^^^very good point, but who are YOU to choose someone's challenges for them? not you specifically, but any person. if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


Because if we aren't challenged, what will challenge us when we are in a negative mindset? It's up to us as people to challenge each other, encourage each other and to grow.

no, it really isn't. we choose our own challenges, and that's the way it should be.

i could decide for you that your challenge should be to learn some compassion by walking in another person's shoes, like.... hmmmmmm you could become morbidly obese over the course of a couple of years then take the weight off in a healthy way (and keep it off, of course). but it would not make sense for me to judge what your areas of need happen to be, and to make decisions as to what you need to work on. if i did that, then i am deciding that i know better than you do about what is best for you. choosing someone else's challenges for them is an arrogant decision.


If you are born into poverty and you want to amass an amount of finacial security for your family, that's a challenge that is born. If you are born being told something is harder for you and that it can't be achieved, it is an even greater challenge. Nature dictates what our challenges our for us, life isn't fair and that's something that we must accept. If people don't naturally develop to the standards of the norm, people are expected to adapt and to grow by society if they want to achieve and overcome those goals in life.

Some battles aren't chosen but forced on to us.

you're still not getting it. you want other people to take on YOUR goals because you think that is best for them. it isn't. those are your goals, not theirs. maybe they are trying to learn to socialise, or ride a bike, or how to budget, or learn refined manners. but you've decided that since they are fat then they should strive to "improve" themselves, when in fact you are actually no better than they are. just different.


I have not stated that treating obesity is waste of money, I put that example stated by the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to serve as an example that it is something that can be detrimental to the standard of health. If smoking and alcohol is something that is detrimental to health, the government should encourage people to at least do it in moderation or to be responsible and sensible in their pursuit. By responsible, I mean that people shouldn't go out and hit women or drink and drive and alcohol is an even greater problem.

I have absolutely taken into consideration the point you have made and I think it is a very good one. Being kind to yourself rather than having a judgemental and non-empathetic attitude towards challenges does seem to be a good way but how does one maintain discipline? If we become content, how are we striving to be better? For example, If you become content working a minimum wage job, how do you ever have the goal of getting a better paid job? Maybe there is a balance between being content but also having enough discipline to want to change, I suppose different things work for different people.



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15 Jul 2012, 12:55 am

Wolfheart wrote:
If we become content, how are we striving to be better? For example, If you become content working a minimum wage job, how do you ever have the goal of getting a better paid job?


You don't. And that's no one's business but yours.
Kinda like how the amount of space someone else takes up is no one's business but theirs.

Funny how that works


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15 Jul 2012, 1:02 am

hyperlexian wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
i think she wasn't implying ill will. "concern trolling" is pretending to genuinely care about a cause or someone's personal well-being, while actually holding contempt for them.

this is a very good blog post about concern trolling:

http://fatheffalump.wordpress.com/2012/ ... -trolling/


I don't think it's that either (and contempt is ill will).

But I think you had it here:

hyperlexian wrote:
if someone wants diet advice, they will ask for it (probably in another thread). people didn't ask for opinions about what they think fat people should be doing with their lives.


The problem is wrong context. And everyone is entitled to make mistakes, particularly when their intent was good but the execution was flawed or too enthusiastic or what have you.

do you think he doesn't have contempt for fat people? maybe you're right.

Wolfheart, do you think fat people are equally as worthy as athletic people?


If you want to see contempt for fat people, go to a thread like this one http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... 991&page=1

If anything, those are the types of attitudes that I am against because I believe everyone has potential. In society? Intellect is far more valuable to me, I would have no trouble hiring a fat person over an athletic person if the fat person was more reliable, productive and trustworthy since only aesthetic and extremely demanding manual jobs require a person to have better level of athleticism. Athleticism is a personal goal, at least I think it is a personal goal but it does require a great amount of determination, dedication and willpower.