LOW blood pressure (not orthostatic)

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ok, some history... 10 years ago, i was morbidly obese. many people are obese and healthy, but not me - i had health problems including dangerously HIGH blood pressure. so i started exercising and eating carefully and i slowly lost 90 lb/41 kg. i also started to take an ACE inhibitor.

a couple of years ago i stopped losing weight (at the cusp between overweight and obese), but i was fine with that. i continued to eat healthily and i exercised regularly, and eventually i started taking a moderate dosage of beta blockers instead of ACE inhibitors. those meds also helped my anxiety and migraines.

my blood pressure started to drop and i got a bit dizzy at times, so the doctor lowered my dosage of beta blockers to the barest minimum. in fact, the doctor eventually said that i didn't need to reduce my blood pressure further, but since the dosage of the meds was too small to affect my b.p. anyways, he advised i could continue taking it for the other benefits.

fast forward to the last few months. i stopped worrying about my b.p. altogether.

about a month ago i developed a "cotton wool spot" in my eye - essentially it is a stroke in a blood vessel of the retina which results in an accumulation of fluid and vision loss in a localised area. the optometrist saw my list of meds and assumed it was due to HIGH blood pressure (i recently started taking 2 other meds that can dangerously INCREASE blood pressure, so it was a reasonable assumption).

so i started checking my blood pressure, and in fact it was very low. my regular doctor asked if i was dizzy at times. well... yes. so she took me OFF the beta blocker and referred me to a retina specialist. in the meantime i also stopped exercising except in very small doses and i started eating salty and unhealthy foods. i also started to drink extra water (though i already drank several litres a day).

the retina specialist told me that my vision loss should be recovered in about 8 to 10 weeks. but he said it was caused by LOW blood pressure. this was shocking to me. i tried researching the phenomenon and most cases from low blood pressure are quite extreme, like when a person is spurting blood from an artery or almost dying from anaesthetic reactions or suffering from leukemia.

so now... my b.p. has continued to be relatively low in the morning (i.e. 94/64), but it moves into the lower range of normal as the day progresses. i feel tired as ever, though. i feel really lost as to where to go from here. i don't want to lead an unhealthy lifestyle.

tl;dr version: does anyone have advice as to safe ways to increase blood pressure?

Hmm, you've tried salt. Could try more salt? For me, it takes a fairly low amount of salt to make my face red and thus induce high blood pressure. Maybe your salt threshold is higher. It sucks, as kimchi, one of my favorite foods, would otherwise be super healthy, but I can't handle all the salt it has. Maybe if I ate it with bananas to have more potassium to neutralize the salt. Anyway, since "ADD MORE SALT" doesn't seem like an option...yeah.

Two herbs I know that could be helpful for you. Licorice. Licorice root will raise your blood pressure, and it's also a thermogenic and will raise your body heat and burn fat. The only problem with it, in my case, it's very estrogenic, and has estrogenlike compounds or promotes the body to make estrogen (I forget which.) So it depends, for a guy, it's sorta out of the question, but for a woman, it might be beneficial. Licorice you can get away without a supplement of it, and you can go to a Chinese market and buy a pound of licorice roots for a few bucks, and just eat them and it'll taste like licorice flavored wood, better than it sounds.

Another herb, ginseng. Ginseng is weird, it can raise blood pressure, it can also lower it, too. Basically ginseng seems to "regularize" your blood pressure, and it'll raise it if it's low, or lower it if it's high. Ginseng sorta tastes nasty, maybe buy pills. I've found the ones they sell at Dollar Tree work reasonably if you take two at a time.

Another thing, too, is, you might want to take some high dosages of vitamin C, like probably 3000mg a day or so, vitamin C promotes blood vessel repair and you need it to make adrenaline, which your beta blockers meds block. Basically, make sure your vitamin intake is good. Extra B vitamins and C above normal doses is quite helpful. Magnesium is very underrated, too, it's sorta expensive to find good quality magnesium, though, but it's worth it.

AWESOME advice, thank you. i like the taste of licorice so i'd like chewing on a bit of root. it oddly makes my tongue numb so i think that it would have a strong effect on me. i will try that, and some vitamin C, magnesium and ginseng too. i think i'll try one at a time to see which one has some benefit.

what you said about potassium is interesting. i tend to eat a banana a day. should i stop doing that?

I can't say one way or the other. I got no idea what'd happen if you cut the banana out or not. Just try it and see what happens if you're interested. For me personally, I tried eating like 5-6 bananas a day, and got really bloated and really thirsty quite fast when I did that. During those days, I was doing very little physical activity, and it was hot outside, I don't know, I probably need more potassium when I'm lifting weights than if I'm just sitting around.

Anyway, trying them separately is good, in a scientific method kinda way, but I'd say the vitamin C and vitamins you should just take regardless, and then if you like licorice's effects or ginseng's more, then you can choose which one to take, or take them both.

Forget about the salt. It's not proven that salt causes high blood pressure, and even if reducing salt intake can lower a high b.p. in some cases this doesn't mean it can raise a low b.p.

I had extremely low b.p. when i was about ten, but due to the headaches it was misdiagnosed as migraine, and after the migraine medis had brought me to the E.R. since they lower the b.p. even more, this turned out to be the actual reason.

There are some herbal medis to raise it, but you have to take them continuously, so my simple solution is strong coffee and black tea when it's getting too low, also brush massage and cold showers, or a cold washcloth in the nape of my neck for ten minutes, cold water over the wrists for a few minutes. If it's extreme i combine a mug of strong black coffee with a bottle of coke--kicks in!

What I have found with any kind of blood pressure issues, is that it almost always is because of the insulin reaction in your body, which means that your insulin is way off, either way. So you have to look at what is causing your insulin to behave like that.

First of all: cut the alcohol and caffeine. They are big no-nos with hypoglycemia. All they do is spike it for a short time and then cause it to crash again.

I have always had low blood pressure in the athletic range because I have always been extremely active. But after I moved to Australia, my blood pressure got worse and worse, not only much lower but it would spike and crash all the time. I had many fainting spells because of it among other things.

It turned out that it was the processed food here that caused it. Not just processed food as in fast food (because I never ate too much of that anyway), but processed food as in grains, starches and sugars (wheat {bread, pasta}, barley, corn, rice, potato, diary, sugar etc etc etc). All of those things would cause massive spikes and crashes, and gradually kept making the condition worse.

At the beginning of October last year, I removed all grains, starches, legumes, diary and sugars. (on the orders of my specialist)
As of testing last month, my blood pressure has just gotten back into the athletic range again.

I still have to be careful and wait for it to rise a bit more, but after that I am free to include rice and a little bit more fruit again a couple of times a week. Which doesn't matter much these days, as I live on soups, stir frys, curries, stews, meat and vege meals, and various other things that I am used to without those things included. Once it is completely back to normal - I will be free to eat all of those things again as long as I make sure they are not the majority of my diet. If they become the majority (50% or over) of my diet, I will end up hypoglycemic again.

So I have to wonder, how much of a percentage do grains, starches, legumes, diary and sugars make up of your current diet?

There's a high-powered drug that the same way that licorice root does: fludrocortisone.

There's another called "midodrine" which you might already know about.

And be careful with magnesium -- it dilates blood vessels so too much might be counterproductive.

And salt will raise BP. The question about it is whether as a matter of public health is it beneficial to have everyone restrict their NaCl intake. (IOW, lowering salt intake may not in general lower blood pressure, but eating more will almost certainly increase it in most individuals.)

Sodium is the most abundant solute in blood, and since nerve cells depend on a precise concentration of Na to function, your kidneys will deliberately recycle more water to dilute your blood Na concentration down if you ingest a lot of salt. It's basically the same as getting a saline IV; it increases the total volume of blood in your body.

My low BP problems are more othostatic-ish, but FWIW it takes me between 6g and 10g of salt a day to get to where I want. That's a LOT of salt, though (I find it hard to eat that much on my food, which is annoying).

I was in an ER once with severely low sodium (can cause seizures and brain damage) and they had me swallow 20g of salt tablets. So, the body apparently normally has at least 20g of salt in it. So, 5g would be about a 25% increase.

My blood pressure is usually quite low - seems to hereditary as is common with women on my mother's side of the family. Since having a bout of flu last month it seems lower than normal, and I do feel particularly dizzy and lightheaded when singing so it must have something to do with the breathing, I reckon.

Should be seeing my doctor about this soon, so I'll report back any advice I'm given. It does seem that whatever treatment is recommended depends on what cause can be identified.

Some people who never faint have a condition known as vasovagal pre-syncope. Normally if a person gets dizzy and starts to have actual fainting spells a doctor will order a tilt-table test to check for neurocardiogenic syncope, however in vasovagal pre-syncope the issue can be missed if one never actually faints.

My understanding is that an individual is born with the condition but it may present itself throughout the course of life in varying degrees depending on stress and other issues.

Stress is a trigger for the disorder, and you have reported your share of that here in the last couple of years. My suggestion is to discuss it with a doctor if any of the info. in the link below matches your symptoms, and see if they will order a tilt-table test with a cardiologist. There is no cure, but I'm positive that it can get better because I was at the top 10 percent of the military for physical fitness, suddenly came down with the dizzy spells and could barely walk a few feet without getting dizzy. I was under a tremendous amount of stress, that likely exacerbated the problem for me. I can remember seeing stars at times when I was young, but never really dizzy.

I was under the impression many times, that I was having a stroke because my vision would become dim in my right eye and my legs would feel rubbery, but I was somewhere in between fainting and not fainting. My blood pressure and heart rate varied from high to low, and was not consistent. I experienced 170 over 100 blood pressure, was given short term blood pressure medication but then it went down to 88 over 50, and I saw stars when I raised my arms. That is perhaps the most dangerous part of the issue, when it is not understood by a physician that a person has neurocardiogenic syndrome, in prescribing blood pressure medication.

However the doctors never suspected I had orthostatic low blood pressure, or neurocardiogenic syndrome, they blamed it on the blood pressure medicine. And, apparently didn't believe I was having spells of low blood pressure, because my blood pressure was elevated in the doctors office. I had to do my own research and insist on a tilt table test to get diagnosed. Not fainting was the part of it that confused the primary doctor, the most..

I've recovered a great deal since then, and am able to workout to levels at the gym at close to where I was before. Except I don't do the intense aerobic exercise I use to.

I rarely get dizzy anymore, but it took a steroid shot in the neck, to get over that part of it, for me.

If a person has neck spasms associated with stress, and underlying arthritis issues in their neck, there is the potential that blood flow to the brain can be cut off this way as well, and result in anomalies in blood pressure as well as dizziness. This was part of my issue as well. The steroid shot in my neck, broke the cycle of pain spasm, that I had for about two years and I immediately had more energy, as well as a resting heart beat and blood pressure that almost immediately went back to normal.

I mention the neck spasms because they are so common in culture, and many don't realize that it can cut blood flow to the brain, cause incredible pain, that one wouldn't normally identify at the origin of the neck. I have a degree in health, but this was not talked about as a common issue, to the extent of the consequences that it can have on overall well being.

Although, on other related issues per pain spasms in the body, the cycle of pain and spasm, is commonly understood and known difficult to stop, without some type of external influence, whether it is ice, advil, or in my case a steroid shot to the neck, because of the underlying severe arthritis.

Arthritis in the neck and pain spasms can provide some unusual symptoms, such as pain in the ears around the eyes, in the neck, as well as weakness in the body. Arthritis is common in many people, especially those that use electronic devices and have their head tilted down or in a static position for hours behind a computer, particularly in the workplace when it is 8 hours a day. Spasms can occur in part, as a warning from one's body, telling one to escape an environment of mental or physical ergonomic stress.

A relative issue to me because after a couple of years, the pain has started to come back in my neck, just in the last several days, as well as some spasms and the same unusual pain, even in the front of the neck, that mimics a sore throat, and a little bit of dizziness after working out. So far advil is working to stop the spasm/pain cycle. You haven't mentioned neck spasms, but they are so common, that many live with them everyday and get used to them as a normal part of life.

Exercise helps the issue, of neurocardiogenic syncope because the muscles of the body assist in blood flow back to the heart. I didn't totally give up on it no matter how weak I was, and it is probably a reason I never had much of an issue with it until well into my forties, as I started vigorously exercising when I was twelve

One interesting issue that doctors don't typically acknowledge as a real condition, adrenal fatigue syndrome, resulting from chronic stress. If it is a real physical condition, there are many alternative medical approaches that attempt to approach the issue, since doctors don't normally treat it. And an abundance of information. However, so many factors are associated with stress, and physical symptoms that result from it, it's always best to pursue the other avenues with doctors care, first.

Hormonal changes as one approaches middle age can impact the issue as well, more notably in women, but more increasingly noted in men, with the expanded numbers of androgel prescriptions in the population.

More generally, I suppose a great deal of this could be referred to as general burnout from the stresses of life. Some are more resilient than others, but it has been a phenomenon reported greater among the few individuals newly identified with autism in adulthood. There are some interesting threads on that in this site that can be found with a search.

All animals as well as human beings have limits per the stress of life that they can withstand, before meeting potential complete exhaustion. Not the kind exhaustion one sees from a hard days work, one that it is more permanent in nature and much more difficult to overcome.

Han Selye's theory of general adaptation syndrome, is a favorite one of mine, in that it reflects what is seen in the rest of the animal kingdom.

Everyone one of these issues can be associated with the autonomic nervous system and problems with low blood pressure. And unfortunately it isn't an exhaustive list and one can have symptoms of all the conditions listed above at one time. Per, example of immune system problems that often coincide with extreme stress.

And one final thing, is people can get used to stress as a lifestyle, and they lose a point of reference, to just how stressed out they really are. That probably describes at least a quarter of the population in the US, per the polls that have been done that suggest that about 27% of the population feels like they are close to a nervous breakdown, which is not clearly defined, and likely related to many of the issues above. And perhaps particularly linked to the link below on general adaptation syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_adaptation_syndrome#General_adaptive_syndrome

http://www.cccgroup.info/neurosyn.asp

holy wow, thanks for the responses everyone!! !!

1000Knives, thanks for the extra guidance.

PTSmorrow, i would like very much to forget the salt because i don't like eating so much unhealthy crap. i do get migraine headaches quite a lot as well, but the medicine i take (almotriptan) tends to raise the blood pressure. i will try the cold water. i do get some caffeine on a daily basis (probably about 2 cups). what is brush massage?

Kjas, for some reason my blood glucose levels are fine. i've had the fasting glucose test and also an insulin resistance test. when i was very obese i occasionally got shaky if i went a long time without any food, but i am ok now (and i tend to eat small snacks more often). i have been trying to have one drink a day as it has positive effects for LOWERING blood pressure, but it is definitely pointless now that my blood pressure is low.

most of the time i will eat oats and oat bran as my starchy food of choice, also lots of fruit and low fat yoghurt, some eggs/meat/some small amount of veggies (i am a supertaster so unless i cook the crap out of them they are truly repulsive). very little milk products except a bit of yoghurt, and some occasional legumes (no peanut butter really). i don't eat a lot of bread, but i do eat some small amount of crackers or biscuits.

essentially, my diet is designed for someone with high blood pressure, so i tend towards eating very healthy and nutrient-packed foods with occasional sweets. i also have to be careful of many foods that can cause migraines, so it's a bit of a balancing act (only occasional cheese, not too many nuts, avoid chocolate, etc). i tend to stay away from too much rice and potatoes because i had some severe digestive issues and those things made it much worse.

Apple_in_my_Eye, that's great information about those drugs! i didn't realise salt worked that way, so hopefully i can work it to my advantage. thanks for explaining the science behind it. i had realised that raising blood volume raises bp., but i did not know that salt helped via a similar effect. i understand *completely* about the difficulty with adding enough dietary salt. sometimes it even makes my mouth hurt if a food is too salty.

that must have been scary to end up in hospital like that!! ! what is your health like in general? also, is there an easy way to test the sodium in your body at a given time?

Marcia, i think you are onto something. my daughter (age 17) has quite low blood pressure, and she finds it hard to stand for long periods. when i think back to being a teenager, i had similar feelings of tiredness and dizziness, but back then teenagers didn't really get their b.p. checked so i don't know if mine was low.

back then, my hands and feet were always ice cold and i would often have to sleep with my feet elevated above my head or my legs would ache from the pooled blood (at the time, the doctor called it "bad circulation). lately, i have had to raise my feet up like that again on a regular basis after work as it eases the pain in my legs and feet. do you have symptoms like that? let me know how the doctor ends up helping you and i hope you feel better soon.

aghogday, a ton of thanks! i have heard of vasovagal syncope because my daughter had low blood pressure and we tried to find out why. but i have not heard of PREsyncope. that is very interesting. today at work i felt like i was going to faint when i was at the cash register (nausea, scrambled thoughts, lightheadedness, room spinning). i had to semi-crouch to get the blood back to my head. often, when i feel like that i stamp my feet/wiggle my toes/ walk around, which can help to get the blood moving properly again.

i think i may go to the doctor tomorrow, because i checked my b.p. when i got home and it was actually normal today in spite of having a dizzy spell!

very very true about the stress, and it definitely could be causing problems. i have experienced a lot of stressful events, and i do not cope with it very well. i have tried to do everything i could, but ultimately my body says nononoPLEASENO.

i think the tilt-table test seems like the way forward. today, to see if it made any difference, i took my b.p. from 2 positions - seated and standing. but my b.p. cuff is not too scientific lol.

interesting you mention the steroid shot, because i think one of the meds that Apple_in_my_Eye mentioned is a steroid (fludrocortisone). i did not realise arthritis could cause such an issue like you had - i am sorry to hear of your pain. i often get very tense in my neck area (sometimes i get migraines that progress from a tension headache), so your mention of spasms seems like a likely culprit. i have tried getting massages, but the 20 minutes of relief i would experience before i seized up again, along with the pain and sensation of bruising, was not worth it. i also sometimes feel pain in the side of my neck under my jawline.

thank you for the links!

i do wonder if i am entering perimenopause, but it seems hard to tell in advance. i am glad that men's hormonal changes pover their lifetime are more readily studied and understood these days too.

I had the same problem some time ago, with similar prerequisites (after having lost massive amounts of weight). My doc told me: drink some Coke every now and then. Sugar + Caffeine = gets your motor running.

starryeyedvoyager, that sounds quite reasonable. thanks for the advice!

I had the low blood pressure problem a few years ago when a BP med was added to my cocktail of psych meds because I was trying to get a tremor disorder treated & some are helped by a couple BP meds. I got really weak a couple days later while at work; I had to leave because I felt like I was having a stroke. I had a couple test ran before my GP realized it was related to low blood pressure. He took me off the med & suggested I sip a soft-drink & snack on something every couple hours or when I felt weak. I'm over that problem now.
Have you considered replacing your benzo with Buspar? It helps me with my anxiety better than benzos did & I don't have those side-effects. I haven't read much evidence about Buspar lowering blood pressure on it's on like benzos can thou it can when combined with some meds but I've also read it can increase it when combined with other meds

good ideas, nick007! i am taking Seroquel, actually. i dug deeper and it turns out that sometimes it CAN cause low blood pressure, so it might be the culprit.

No clue how to help, just wanted to offer support, and mention that I have low BP, too, as does my mother. She's adopted, so dunno about her/my female relatives on that side. Am glad to hear vision issues weren't more serious (not to downplay your current problem- I was just afraid it was a tumor or something).

^^^thank you, i appreciate the support. and i understand what you mean, totally. i was also worried my vision problem was something much worse, so i am relieved it is really benign.