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khaoz
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20 Apr 2014, 9:43 pm

They make the circular dance look so easy. Still much rather watch this than Steven Segal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eym6KvZ ... r_embedded



cathylynn
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20 Apr 2014, 10:14 pm

yes, that was good. my college advisor was into aikido. he taught us the unbendable arm.



auntblabby
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20 Apr 2014, 10:44 pm

gawd that has to hurt.



khaoz
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20 Apr 2014, 11:11 pm

Well, you either learn to go with the direction of the throw, or you end up with a dislocated or broken limb. And the very first thing they teach you when you take those classes is how to fall down properly so you don't injure yourself.

I don't know if you have ever seen the founder of Aikido, but he was doing these demonstrations into his eighties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30Sa0PLquFg



auntblabby
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20 Apr 2014, 11:15 pm

for me, there is no such thing as "falling down properly." I will be injured unless it is in glacially slow motion.



kazma
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23 Apr 2014, 9:50 pm

with some of the basic aikido techniques you can make them nasty like Segal its technically wrong but you can you use momentum and/or your strength once they become unbalanced to do extreme damage if you want too

im very good with wrist manipulation techniques in fact i had to quit an mma/bjj gym as i was finding holes in their system as they looked down on wrist manipulation techniques also they'd complain when id win by using them

i quit as they'd intentionally try to hurt me by following thru with moves like kimura and such one student broke one of my ribs using dojime which im quite sure is an illegal move



khaoz
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23 Apr 2014, 10:02 pm

kazma wrote:
with some of the basic aikido techniques you can make them nasty like Segal its technically wrong but you can you use momentum and/or your strength once they become unbalanced to do extreme damage if you want too

im very good with wrist manipulation techniques in fact i had to quit an mma/bjj gym as i was finding holes in their system as they looked down on wrist manipulation techniques also they'd complain when id win by using them

i quit as they'd intentionally try to hurt me by following thru with moves like kimura and such one student broke one of my ribs using dojime which im quite sure is an illegal move


If students in the dojo are intentionally trying to hurt each other that reflects badly on Sensei. Students of martial arts in a dojo should look at each other as partners to learn from, not as opponents. Should be helping each other, not trying to hurt each other.



kazma
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23 Apr 2014, 10:15 pm

it was mainly me they had the problem with as i was looked at as the outsider of the group also i didn't hold the view that mma/bjj was the be all and end all of the martial arts as most there did



khaoz
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23 Apr 2014, 10:23 pm

kazma wrote:
it was mainly me they had the problem with as i was looked at as the outsider of the group also i didn't hold the view that mma/bjj was the be all and end all of the martial arts as most there did


People who get into martial arts because of MMA/BJJ are destroying martial arts. And teachers who encourage students to use martial arts training in order to participate in MMA/BJJ competition have no business teaching martial arts. It is no longer "art" when you are trying to hurt people, and these people have obviously no understanding of Morihei Ueshiba.



auntblabby
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23 Apr 2014, 10:29 pm

do the martial arts have a policing organization that disciplines people who misuse the martial arts?



khaoz
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23 Apr 2014, 10:48 pm

auntblabby wrote:
do the martial arts have a policing organization that disciplines people who misuse the martial arts?


Each martial art has an organization, or several organizations that can handle issues of ethics, yes, but not nearly well enough enforced in my opinion. Money has a tendency to corrupt ethics. I see too many people open martial arts studios with fliers in the window guaranteeing that students will achieve a certain belt level in a certain time period. I don't think you will see that in Japan, Korea, or Okinawa. One of my first martial arts instructors was younger than me by 15 years and already a black belt and instructor. He bragged that he got into the martial arts because he like to fight. I left that dojo after that. To me, that is not a good teacher.

Most of my experience is studying the history and culture of martial arts. Reading books, biographies, not Black Belt magazine. I appreciate it for its art and culture. One man I used to work with and go to his home for dinners is a 7th dan black belt in Tae Kwon Do. He was the coach of the American team at the Pan Am games around 25 years ago. He was selected for that position from some Federation of Tae Kwon Do instructors.

The last martial arts school I attended was in Hapkido and I checked the credentials of the instructor through a few different National Hapkido organizations. I think a lot of people will get a black belt or not after taking classes for a short time, then go to some small town and just open a gym/dojo.

I have taken classes in Korea from Korean teachers and the whole method of training is different from what I see American teachers and even Korean teachers doing in the United States

The one Japanese judo studio I have taken classes at was totally different than any other martial arts studio I have ever seen, at least in the US.



kazma
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23 Apr 2014, 10:52 pm

khaoz

whilst i myself hold no formal grades in any martial art i have trained none the less and do understand the principles behind what is useful and what is not in terms of self defense in that regard i too am guilty of destroying the art but at lest i know of Morihei Ueshiba most mma/bjj guys only know of the Gracies

auntblabby

if you mean in the clubs its up to the instructor in charge



auntblabby
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23 Apr 2014, 10:59 pm

to Kazma and Khaoz, have either of you seen an actual disciplinary process take place with a misbehaving martial artist? or have heard of such happening in recent times?



khaoz
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23 Apr 2014, 11:02 pm

kazma wrote:
khaoz

whilst i myself hold no formal grades in any martial art i have trained none the less and do understand the principles behind what is useful and what is not in terms of self defense in that regard i too am guilty of destroying the art but at lest i know of Morihei Ueshiba most mma/bjj guys only know of the Gracies

auntblabby

if you mean in the clubs its up to the instructor in charge


There is nothing wrong in using things you learn for self defense and it is good physical training. What I object to is people who take martial arts and use it to start fights and bully people. When I see MMA on TV it makes me sick to my stomach. I have seen a lot of people who obviously have taken martial arts classes, who hang around in bars using what they know to start fights and strut. Cocky, arrogant people.

I watched a group of drunk American soldiers in Korea one night attack a Korean wedding party walking down the street, all in Tuxedos and bride gown and all the women in dresses. The Americans just walked up, without any provocation and started doing fancy spinning heel kicks and backfists to bloody up the Korean men and destroy the wedding memories of those people for no other reason than to show off.



khaoz
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23 Apr 2014, 11:11 pm

auntblabby wrote:
to Kazma and Khaoz, have either of you seen an actual disciplinary process take place with a misbehaving martial artist? or have heard of such happening in recent times?


I have seen an instructor discipline his students who started getting out of hand with displays of ego by calling them in front of class for instruction on a particular move, pretty much to humiliate them and show them they don't know enough to be strutting in class. Have I seen with my own eyes an instructor disciplined for unethical behavior? No, but I know there are organizations responsible for doing that. If there is no ethical way to participate in martial arts there would be no referees at National and International Amateur. And the officiating at amateur competition is totally different than what you see in MMA on the TV.

There are good teachers and there are bad teachers. Good schools and bad schools. If there were no regulatory organizations, I think the bad would outnumber the good. I don't think that is the case. I just think standards are relaxed for westerners.