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roronoa79
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20 Oct 2018, 4:47 am

Many of my best friends since I was a teenager have had autism or bpd or both, and I know how they often have a terrible fear of abandonment or betrayal. And I have a terrible track record of being manipulated or controlled by people with bpd for fear that I might abandon them. And I'm terrified it's happening again and I just wonder. This fear of betrayal, does it make it easier to feel justified in controlling people? If I had the same fear that I've seen in my friends over the years, then I don't know what I would be willing to do to keep people I love from abandoning me. And I don't know how far I would feel justified in going if they actually did betray me. Granted, I'm awful at standing up for myself and will often convince myself I deserved it. But god help them if they betray someone I care about. I don't even have bpd but if someone were to manipulate or betray someone I care about then I am...distressed by how far I would be willing to go to make them suffer.

TL;DR I'm terrified one of my asd/bpd friends is manipulating/betraying me and another of my asd/bpd friends and I have no idea how to handle that. As any attempt to confront them about it would result in a metric sh*tton of drama as they are just very emotionally fragile in general. So I'm trapped.


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Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides


Sahn
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20 Oct 2018, 5:45 am

roronoa79 wrote:
As any attempt to confront them about it would result in a metric sh*tton of drama as they are just very emotionally fragile in general. So I'm trapped.

Contorting around someone else's demands doesn't do either of you any good, you probably know that, good luck.



magz
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21 Oct 2018, 6:53 am

Confronting a borderline about their behaviors never worked for me.
I'm not a specialist but what kind of worked was:
1. Keep to the facts, try to ignore interpretations as much as possible;
2. Understand your own feelings and know your right to have them and express them;
3. You are not responsible for other people's happiness. Even your closest friends and family - it's not your responsibility to make them happy.

It kind of helped me deal with some people from my family, you know.


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21 Oct 2018, 8:27 pm

There are a lot of similarities between autism and BPD. Both are emotionally sensitive to an extreme degree, think in black and white, etc, and the other symptoms, such as a fear of abandonment, can be developed after an autistic person experiences social rejection many times. Maybe the person isn't being manipulative, but just does not know how to interact properly and comes off that way. Then again, maybe they really are being manipulative.

I have people in my family I suspect to have BPD and I was friends with someone in the past who I strongly suspect to have had either autism, BPD, or both. People with BPD are not monsters, and even though they are manipulative, it is all because of an extreme fear of abandonment. I think the best way to be friends with someone with BPD is to accept that they are going to have their own emotional drama and manipulation, and it is best to try to remain and unaffected as possible by that, while still retaining the positive aspects of the friendship. However, if it is too hard emotionally to be friends with said person, then don't be afraid to put yourself first. BPD/autism friendships take an extreme amount of emotional strength to maintain, and not everyone can maintain them, and there is nothing wrong with that.


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roronoa79
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23 Oct 2018, 1:22 am

magz wrote:
3. You are not responsible for other people's happiness. Even your closest friends and family - it's not your responsibility to make them happy.


Yeah that's not a pill I'm going to be swallowing any time soon. I get to the point with my depression where I can't make myself happy so I just try to make other people happy for validation. It kind of leaves me more open to getting manipulated but hey. If anything I feel a strong moral responsibility for making other people happy. If I'm not going to do it and they can't do it then who will? People are so indifferent it drives me nuts


_________________
Diagnoses: AS, Depression, General & Social Anxiety
I guess I just wasn't made for these times.
- Brian Wilson

Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides


magz
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23 Oct 2018, 2:37 am

roronoa79 wrote:
magz wrote:
3. You are not responsible for other people's happiness. Even your closest friends and family - it's not your responsibility to make them happy.


Yeah that's not a pill I'm going to be swallowing any time soon. I get to the point with my depression where I can't make myself happy so I just try to make other people happy for validation. It kind of leaves me more open to getting manipulated but hey. If anything I feel a strong moral responsibility for making other people happy. If I'm not going to do it and they can't do it then who will? People are so indifferent it drives me nuts

Yeah, my therapist had to work on it with me for a while. But at the end of the day it made everyone happier, including the ones I gave up responsibility.
BPD emotions are bottomless hole. Nothing can really fill it. That's the tragedy of their lives. The only thing that can be done is to learn to live with it without much destruction. And strong personal boundaries are crucial here.
It's something similar to living with an addicted person - an important part is not to become codependent, even if the moral narration in your culture would recommend selflessness and support whatever happens.


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<not moderating PPR stuff concerning East Europe>