Diagnosis: Schizoid Personality Disorder, ouch...

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As I understand it, a schizoid personality doesn't involve divergent thought processes, just a withdrawal from human contact. The real difference between AS and SPD seems to be that with AS cognitive difficulties lead to social isolation, whereas with SPD no cognitive problems are involved. It seems to me very unfortunate that Schizoid Personailty Disorder is put on the schizophrenia spectrum because as far as I can tell an innate tendency to shun human interaction has nothing to do with schizophrenia at all and is far closer to autism. Or am I wrong?

Your right. Schizoid personality disorder doesn't appear to have the "positive" symptoms associated with schizotypy or schizophrenia. I'm not sure why it is on the spectrum, but probably has to do with schizoids sharing a lot of the negative symptoms associated with the schizophrenia, plus the tendency that all three tend to run in families.

With its relation to autism, the symptoms in the autistic spectrum shares a lot in common with some symptoms of psychotic disorders in general, so similarities are bound to be apparent. In a thread that asked people to take both the AQ and the SPQ, I was shocked at the amount of people with Asperger's who had elevated scores in the SPQ (the majority would have met the criteria for SPD), and the higher the AQ score, the higher the SPQ score tended to be. The main difference I saw was that those with Asperger's tended to not have the elevated scores in magical thinking component of the SPQ, and a lower but still elevated score on unusual perceptions. All the other ones seemed to be fair game, including suspiciousness.

I originally, and still think, I have Asperger's myself. When tested, like the OP, I also had above-average (but no Mensa) verbal memory and executive functioning (88th and 80th percentile respectively). In their eyes, this made the diagnosis of Asperger's less likely. I instead get tagged with bipolar II. While not regarded as a universal symptom, I read that those with bipolar also have reduced cognitive empathy on average(difficulty with reading faces and other nonverbal social cues), which would explain my poor social skills.

EDIT: I also noticed that there seems to be more systemizing seen in those on the Autistic spectrum than those seen in schizophrenia-related diagnoses. The former tend to retreat to systems, facts and rules, while the latter tend to retreat into fantasy.

That is an interesting point about systematising vs fantasy. Maybe that is the link they see between schizoid personality and schizophrenia, that schizoids tend to fantasise a lot. I don't know whether aspies fantasise, too. Speaking personally, I fantasise (for fun, not because I have delusions), as well as having major motor stereoptypes, focusing obsessively on intensely narrow special interests and withdrawing chronically from interaction with others. etc etc . I suspect that I am schizoid rather than an aspie, but what puzzles me is that I can't identify with schizophrenia or schizophrenics at all (it just seems like something completely different) whereas I feel that autistic people are like more extreme versions of me, so that is a paradox. I have a first appointment with a psychiatrist in 10 days time so I'll see what she says.

Re: fantasizing v. systemizing.

Tony Attwood mentions several times that some Aspies can "escape into an alternate world." Whether you think Aspies can have imaginations seems to depend on which researcher you read.

My psychologist was going to DX me with Schizoid PD, but he changed it to AS after interviewing my mother and my bosses at work. I think Schizoids and Aspies might have different motivations behind "fantasizing."

There are several videos on the net where aspies describe creating alternative worlds and even one aspie girl on youtube who says that all autistic people have an alternative world of their own imagination, though I'm not sure how she can speak for everybody . (See YouTube More on Autistic Worlds, or YouTube The Real reason why aspies stim).

As regards DXs, I assumed for decades that I was schizoid until I found out about asperger's last autumn, and thought that maybe I have always had that instead. Since then I've decided again that I must in fact be schizoid as I thought at first . The difference is probably a lot clearer to a specialist than it is to a layman, which is why I have an appointment with a psychiatrist later this week. What did your psychologist think was the difference between the two which made him change from the one diagnosis to the other? ( If that's not too personal to ask). In my case I just don't think I have enough difficulty reading social cues for an aspie diagnosis. I'm socially handicapped but not in terms of not actually understanding what is going on in social situations.

Honestly, I'm not sure. I never read my case file, but I know he changed his mind after interviewing my mother and bosses.

I'm guessing that personality disorders (according to professionals, anyway) begin to present in the late teens, or early 20s. And my stimming behavior was big in determining my DX. Schizoids typically don't stim. AS begins to manifest in childhood. Besides, I spent three years on a supposed "schizoid PD forum," and I came to the conclusion that SPD are 1.) obsessed with society and other people, and 2.) highly narcissistic.

That's interesting about stimming, because that is one of the main reasons I decided in the autumn that I probably wasn't schizoid but asperger. I can't remember a time when I didn't use to stim, so it goes right back to earliest childhood. On the schizoid forums I can find nothing at all about stimming, not so much as a single word, ever, whereas on YouTube there are loads of videos of aspies and auties stimming or talking about stimming and they are doing exactly the same thing I did/do for exactly the same reasons. The two features you mention about schizoids I also agree with. I almost get the feeling sometimes that schizoidism is like a philosophical position to some people posting as schizoids, or at least something like that anyway. For me, stimming, obsessive repetitive interests and instinctively seeking solitude have an instinct-like quality to them and are not the result of drawing negative conclusions about other people or positive conclusions about myself, or the other way round. These behaviours are just what I am by nature and I can choose to fight against following my nature or go with the flow, as it were.

I stim a lot & I mentioned that to some of the so-called experts who said I had Schizoid personality instead of AS & they said it was due to my ADHD & stress from being bullied & learning problems when I was in school & they said I was stimming as an adult as a side-effect of the anti-psychotics they insisted I needed to be on. I did have a lot of ticks & twitches on meds but I had been stimming all my life & I was not on psych meds till I had a breakdown when I was 20. People I saw were quacks. I been to Schizoids.net for a breif period like a year ago but that forum is not for me thou I think I would of been a lot more suited for it when I had my breakdown. The members are basically extreme loners who have a hostile attitude with people & society in general. I kind of fit that profile a lot more when I was depressed & frustrated so I guess I can understand why the docs/psychs saw I had a Schizoid personality but they were closed-minded & did not want to consider that it was a learned thing in response to the issues I faced due to my AS; instead they were grasping at other diagnoses to explain some of Aspie issues & quirks

nick007,

I don't know if it's the same for you but there are SOME things in both the schizoid personality description AND the classic asperger description which don't seem to apply to me at all, but different things in each case and one or other of them MUST apply because I definitely have never functioned like a normal person does and so must belong in there somewhere, because there isn't anywhere else to look . It's an interesting idea of yours that the schizoid symptoms you display could be a way of coping with AS. That seems like a very plausible possibilty for some cases. I think my obsessions ("special interests") have done the most to isolate me over the years and to make me seek solitude more than would be thought of as normal. On the other hand I have heard aspies on the net saying things which sound pretty schizoid, which makes me wonder whether there are people diagnosed as aspies who are really schizoid and vice versa.

Not quite. Using the endless MBTI surveys that appear on this site as a rough reference point, it looks like about half of aspies fall into the IxTJ camp, and about 35-40% fall into the IxTP camp.

Put another way, you're right insofar as a slight majority of aspies go, but the group of aspies with ADD who spend their days thinking about space travel and supersonic maglev subways isn't really that much smaller.

Adam,

Yeah, I've got SPD no doubt. Briefly, I had RAD (reaction attachment disorder), which made me avoidant. Raised by an adopted mom that was a Borderline Personality. I became a "spoiler" to attract her emotional fire, so my two siblings could live in relative peace, but everything was blamed on me. I am a member of Mensa, and a National Master at chess, read a whole lot, and work at night alone at a hotel. Married to another BP, I discovered my "condition" when my father died after a reconciliation and another falling out.

Some pointers:

1. SPD is great for the future, because (like my dad always said) you could be happy alone, so don't need people to be satisfied.

2. You can get really good at first impressions (like me), but never need to follow through with a meaningful relationship.

3. Something about pot really does it for SPD (like tobacco for a schizophrenic).

4. You don't give a sh^t about other people's opinions, so do what you want - it is very liberating.

5. No need to blow lots of money on things, places, people, or experiences, because of your rich internal life - free books, audio books, movies, in essence everything you need on the web for free.

6. This is the mind blower: if you can last twenty years there will very likely be extreme longevity treatments that will enable us to live centuries. We got all the time in the world if we play our cards right - just save your money and act like a hermit.

7. Cosmopolitan space travel will enable tons of very lucrative jobs in deep space for us SPDs. Keep improving yourself with learning, education, and introspective thinking.

We are the future, and the future is so bright we'll have to wear shades - we are the lucky 3%, and you hit the jackpot!

Brad