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JSNS
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04 Nov 2011, 11:27 am

It is said that people who visit mental health services have Low IQs and thus are predisposed to mental illness.

Is it only true because they literally test the subjects when they are in thier stages of illness.

Since depression is decremental to the brain , one could believe they have low scores.

If testing before , or testing one's that are predisposed they are likely to have relatively higher IQs.

Has there been research that tests otherwise seemingly healthy people that are predisposed to depression , and then test them after?

There has been on Premorbid IQ and Schizophrenia:

Quote:
In order to test the hypothesis that acute schizophrenia episodes have a negative impact on cognitive function, 35 consecutive non-abuse schizophrenia outpatients (age < 60) were enrolled in this study. All subjects for whom grades from the 9(th) year of the Swedish school system were available, had to complete a comprehensive computerized neuropsychological test session. Symptoms were rated by PANSS and GAF, previous episodes were tallied, and medication was logged. A premorbid cognitive score was calculated on the basis of school grades and validated by comparison with academic career and current cognitive performance (r = 0.56). Half had college level studies or higher, and the overall school grades for the group were above average. PANSS (sum = 59) and GAF [59] ratings as well as medication (M = 230 CPZ units) suggested a moderate symptom level. Two patients had no neuroleptic drugs, 16 had atypical and 17 had conventional neuroleptics. Vocabulary was intact. On average, patients had lost 1 standard deviation (SD) in most cognitive tests but response time slowing amounted to 3.5 SD.There were no differences in cognition between drug types and no correlation with CPZ dose. The number of previous episodes was positively correlated with reaction time prolongation and negatively correlated with short-term verbal memory, consistent with a previous study suggesting that acute episodes cause specific cognitive reduction.


If intelligent people are less at risk at developing more serious disorders , what this suggests also is that some of the same genetic and brain differences that lead to mental illness may also cause lower IQ (again, in some but not all people) - which is a more logical explanation of the correlation of low IQ and mental illness.

High IQ and real life functioning is shown , where "They have demonstrated that the symptoms of schizophrenia are less severe and the ability to function in daily living is better for those with a higher IQ."

Some it seems High IQ acts like a buffer , one that protects from more devasting symptoms and increasing functioning in society despite being mentally ill , which makes them more resilent.

What research shows is that a lower IQ means a greater disposition for schizophrenia but this does not imply that all people with mental illness have low IQ , because the exception of John Nash contradicted it.

But Higher IQs are still exposed to these disorders , in conclusion it only effects the prognosis because of service utilization and reduced impact on social outcome because of taking medication.
-----

Quote:
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
- Ernest Hemingway, author and journalist, Nobel laureate (1899-1961)

Hemingway, who took his own life in 1961, knew his share of both intelligent
people and of unhappiness. He lived through two world wars, the Great Depression, four wives and an unknown number of failed romantic relationships, none of which would help him to develop happiness if he knew how. As Hemingway's quote was based on his life experience, I will base the following speculation on both my personal and my professional experience as a sociologist. Not enough study exists to quote on this subject.

Western society is not set up to nurture intelligent children and adults, the wayit dotes over athletes and sports figures, especially the outstanding ones.While we have the odd notable personality such as Albert Einstein, we also have many extremely intelligent people working in occupations that are considered among the lowliest, as may be attested by a review of the membership lists of Mensa (the club for the top two percent on intelligence scales).

Education systems in countries whose primary interest is in wealth accumulation encourage heroes in movies, war and sports, but not in intellectual development. Super intelligent people manage, but few reach the top of the business or social ladder.

Children develop along four streams: intellectual, physical, emotional
(psychological) and social. In classrooms, the smartest kids tend to be left outof more activities by other children than they are included in. They are "odd," they are the geeks, they are social outsiders. In other words, they do not develop socially as well as they may develop intellectually or even physically where opportunities may exist for more progress.

Their emotional development, characterized by their ability to cope with risky orstressful situations, especially over long periods of time, also lags behind that of the average person.

Adults tend to believe that intelligent kids can deal with anything because they are intellectually superior. This inevitably includes situations where the
intelligent kids have neither knowledge nor skills to support their experience.
They go through the tough times alone. Adults don't understand that they need help and other kids don't want to associate with kids the social leaders say are outsiders.

As a result we have many highly intelligent people whose social development
progresses much slower than that of most people and they have trouble coping with the stressors of life that present themselves to everyone. It should come as no surprise that the vast majority of prison inmates are socially and emotionally underdeveloped or maldeveloped and a larger than average percentage of them are more intelligent than the norm.

Western society provides the ideal incubator for social misfits and those with
emotional coping problems. When it comes to happiness, people who are socially inept and who have trouble coping emotionally with the exigencies of life would not be among those you should expect to be happy.
This may be changing in the 21st century as the geeks gain recognition as people with great potential, especially as people who might make their fortune in the world of high technology. Geeks may be more socially accepted than in the past, but unless they receive more assistance with their social and emotional development, most are destined to be unhappy as they mature in the world of adults.

People with high intelligence, be they children or adults, still rank as social
outsiders in most situations, including their skills to be good mates and parents.

Moreover, they tend to see more of the tragedy in the communites and countriesthey live in, and in the world, than the average person whose primary source of news and information is comedy shows on television. Tragedy is easier to find than compassion, even though compassion likely exists in greater proportion in most communities.

Source: Writing by Bill Allin

-Kdial1



Last edited by JSNS on 04 Nov 2011, 11:54 am, edited 3 times in total.

LunaUlysses
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04 Nov 2011, 11:35 am

I personally do not believe you can measure emotion with anything else statisticly, because emotion is so erratic and plays such a constant changing of how our minds work, it's never constant.

It is a severe variant into a math problem, where the variants are so many that the answer for the math problem could never turn out to be one specific answer. Instead, the answer will be constantly different, because of the different variants that are put into the equation.

Emotion can be any number. It is not set.

Thus, if someone is depressed, they are going to test differently from when they are very happy, or somewhere in the middle. This is my logic, and I do not know if they have studies as to what you want to know, or to understand, but I think it would be WONDERFUL if there were. If there were studies into different emotions, and how they really effect the brain, and how well one can put their knowledge and IQs to work for post, during, and after being put into a clinic and what not.



Rhiannon0828
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04 Nov 2011, 11:41 am

I often wonder how much happier my life could have been if I was born a little less intelligent and a little more socially adept. There does seem to be truth, at least in part, to the saying "ignorance is bliss". As far as differences in IQ based on different emotional states perhaps you could test someone before, during, and after treatment deemed successful by practioner and patient?



cathylynn
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04 Nov 2011, 12:23 pm

supposedly, creative geniuses have a higher incidence of mental illness. in reality, there is no correlation between IQ and mental illness.



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04 Nov 2011, 2:59 pm

Most schizophrenic individuals I've know gave me the impression of having normal to even very high IQs, granted they were not in the middle of massive psychotic episodes at the time.

I believe emotional state can cause a reduction in cognitive functioning. Amongst very intelligent people I think there might be more of a predisposition to schizophrenia....Nicola Tesla heard voices and had delusions, Bobby Fischer was a paranoid schizophrenic, however they might be able to cope with it better as opposed to someone who was inherently a bit dull to begin with.



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04 Nov 2011, 10:10 pm

I asked a really good psychiatrist about this once and in so many words he basically said that most people with a serious metal illness tend to be on the slower side.


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05 Nov 2011, 9:38 am

There is no genius free from some tincture of madness.” -Seneca



cathylynn
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05 Nov 2011, 9:45 pm

John_Browning wrote:
I asked a really good psychiatrist about this once and in so many words he basically said that most people with a serious metal illness tend to be on the slower side.


sounds like a prejudiced psychiatrist or one who had an unfortunate patient population. one person's (even a psychiatrist's) experiences are not scientific evidence.

i agree with the comment above that smarter folks sometimes cope better with their illnesses.



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05 Nov 2011, 11:55 pm

cathylynn wrote:
supposedly, creative geniuses have a higher incidence of mental illness. in reality, there is no correlation between IQ and mental illness.

I've used forums related to mental illness & the members there seemed to be a lot more intelligent than members on forums unrelated to mental illnesses; & a lot of the members on the non mental illness forums who had mental illness seemed to be more intelligent than the members who didn't


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06 Nov 2011, 3:47 am

I'd say it would depend on the mental illness.



teh1jonnyj
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13 Dec 2011, 6:51 pm

There has never been a genious who hasn't been partially insane in their own ways. I myself tested with a high IQ, and I regularly have episodes of paranoia, bouts of extreme anger (always targeted), and generally are called either odd, or strange, just due to the conversation matter I use in social applications. I'd like to think, that people with high IQ's are more prone to have these illnessess just because they're more prone to seeing the cause of problems in typical or logistical reasoning, instead of jumping to assumptions and running from that.



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13 Dec 2011, 11:20 pm

Quote:
It is said


By whom?


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14 Dec 2011, 1:13 am

I think it's unfair to claim people with MIs have low IQs from my perspective it's like Autism it's affects a lot of very different types of people in different ways. I think people with schizophrenia are given a bad IQ rep because of their symptomatic periods. Some people on the right med can be completely normal. At least I once dated a guy a lot more normal than me on meds although he also didn't have AS. I was told that I have a different kind of intelligence on the IQ scale I'm pretty low in most areas, but I actually have a savant talent in visual spatial/pattern recognition. Despite my poor memory and speech problems I actually showed up an Asian while speaking perfect Japanese at a bar tonight. I wasn't having any symptoms except maybe a little hypo from drinking, but I was normal tonight it was great. I could talk and remember things fine. I seriously hardly ever get to experience that. Anyway I also noticed that the wrong med can dumb a person down immensely. I think doctor's aren't very skilled at understanding IQ perfectly in MI people because they're too lazy to put together all the factors that affect our IQs that and the tests they give us are kinda crappy. I only spent 15minutes performing with my savant skills and 2hours on other stuff not to mention god knows if I was all there or not.



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14 Dec 2011, 4:03 pm

John_Browning wrote:
I asked a really good psychiatrist about this once and in so many words he basically said that most people with a serious metal illness tend to be on the slower side.

Does he want to add psychiatric drugs to the drinking water as well?

I'm no fan of psychiatry and the one psychiatrist I know is a narcissistic individual motivated by his own insecurities and keen to establish his superiority (and power) over others, but I think even he might acknowledge that mental distress might lead to one giving an impression of being slower than one actually is.

There are people who believe they have benefited from psychiatry, and some of them are highly intelligent.



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18 Dec 2011, 5:12 am

Quote:
but response time slowing amounted to 3.5 SD


Interesting. I wonder how they measured "response time"? I want to be tested! I get the feeling my response times might be a little on the slow side and the psych giving me the ADHD assessment even remarked on it, so this would be one quick and easy way to find out.

If this is true, then it should be pretty easy to assess whether one is schizophrenic by measuring response time. Even if one was relatively gifted in response time to begin with (say the 2nd standard deviation), a reduction of that magnitude would be pretty easy to detect, even in retrospect.



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01 Jan 2012, 10:58 pm

John_Browning wrote:
I asked a really good psychiatrist about this once and in so many words he basically said that most people with a serious metal illness tend to be on the slower side.


My limited experience of Psychiatrists, is that it is they that are on the slow side.