Borderline and not Bipolar?

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Didn't think Borderline described me much since I always associated it with reckless behaviors like binge drinking and sex, but I wonder if having a co-morbid autism actually gets in the way of some of this. Even without these tendencies, I'm still really high on all the Borderline tests I've taken. Why was I not diagnosed with this when I got my autism diagnosis? Could it just be that I was caught in a depressed state and didn't get observed long enough to observe the other extremes of Borderline Personality Disorder?

http://www.psymed.info/psymed/default.a ... ore=10&l=3

I certainly have the problem of having fewer friends than my level of social functioning with respect ot autism alone would indicate. AND I've had lots of unstable, intense romantic relationships that all ended badly after a few months.

men are more rarely diagnosed as Borderline, even if they have the same symptoms as women.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sto ... sdiagnosed

i dunno if you fit the criteria because i don't know you well enough. about the sex and drugs, i think you're right to look at it as a balance. you've maybe had more sex partners than most autistic people of your age, so there's that possibility. and compared to many other people on the board you might behave impulsively, like trying new medical treatments without worrying about the possible consequences (or just deciding to take a calculated risk without proper medical supervision). these things don't "read" as autistic so they could come definitely from a comorbid, but you know yourself better than i do (and a clinician would know best of all).

That's probably because such men are more likely to be diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (a disorder that women are less likely than men to be diagnosed with).

As to Tyrion, could it be that you just want an extra disorder to be labeled with? I don't know, just wondering.

If you often score high on Borderline tests, then that may be an indication that you may have it, but I also believe your signature somewhat indicates you just want to be labeled with all sorts of psychiatric disorders out there.

Actually, my goal is to start putting an X next to them as they're cured. I think I may be able to do this with anxiety disorder within the next six months or so. Hopefully, I can get undiagnosed with ASD within a few years.

My goal and my attitude throughout all my posts on this board is geared towards fixing the fact that I'm a f****d up person, not garnering sympathy from anyone.

The only reason I went in to get diagnosed with anything to begin with is because I failed a bunch of on-campus interviews. I really feared for my future earning power, so I felt like I needed to do something. My parents had been pressuring me to get evaluated for Asperger's for nearly 4 years, and I would have none of it until something important to me was threatened, and even then, I only did it for practical reasons.

Being diagnosed has been helpful because it gave me a way to conceptualize some of my problems of which I was formerly only vaguely aware. It's been pretty amazing as far as boosting my ability to help myself. I don't give a f**k about whether others feel sorry for me or not.

Nearly 100% of my posts in the "General Autism Discussion" are for practical advice. I'm probably the least "woe-is-me" poster on WP.

Finally, I have identified additional problems that cannot be linked to social skills, so I'm wondering if a Borderline Diagnosis would help me to conceptualize, identify, and neutralize these problems as well. I'm a very rigid, categorical person, so I have trouble conceptualizing anything that doesn't have a label-framework around it, so getting diagnosed is very important to me.

It makes sense. I think it's a similar situation with Asperger's being under diagnosed in women. BPD and AS are polar opposites in many ways, and both play into stereotypes about a certain gender, which makes it harder to recognize in the other gender.

I don't have emotional meltdowns quite like a typical Western female borderline may (not sure), just like an AS female may have less obvious social and empathy issues. Just because it's harder to recognize doesn't mean it's not there; like AS, it may just present differently than it does in the gender with which it is most often associated.

But that's typical for borderline AND autism to get dx with all sorts of disorders.

Also there is a certain overlapp between autism and borderline, so I would be carefull to dx both together.



This test is crap.

First of all, don't believe what comes up on borderline pd tests. Pretty much everyone who takes it qualifies for several personality disorders...I personally score high for Borderline, Schizoid, schizotypal and avoidant. Of which I'm not.

Borderline is difficult to diagnose. It can be mistaken for cyclothymia or Bipolar II. Ive seen you around a bit asking about bipolar. There's also prople that don't have the PD-just traits of the personality disorder. It's always best to get two pdoc opinions on borderline...because its that complicated.

If you're worried, see a pdoc. Don't self diagnose borderline. Borderline is pretty serious, and I know a few people who have it.

Borderline and Bipolar are quite different although superficially they may seem similar.

As already said, online tests are complete crap (I used to think they had some very minor value, but I'm not convinced anymore). You should not trust any information you get from them.

The only info you can obtain apart from seeing a psych that has any validity is utilizing the criteria directly from the DSM IV itself (which I can access online as a psychology student). However, you need to be careful with this also as you are not trained to properly interpret it and rule out alternate diagnoses. What I'm sharing with you here is the basic criteria, in reality it's much more complex than that (there are all these specifiers, alternate diagnoses that need to be ruled out, etc.).

But anyway, how you use the scoring criteria is that you have to meet the criteria for all alphabetic categories (A, B, C, D, E) to be diagnosed with a manic or major depressive episode, except in criteria B you just need a minimum of 3 or 4 symptoms depending on whether your main mood was irritable or elated when experiencing the symptoms.

For bipolar you need a manic or hypomanic (same criteria as manic except at least 4 days in length) episode as well as a major depressive episode (although in very rare cases of bipolar some don't experience a depressive episode).

Criteria for Manic Episode

A. A distinct period of abnormally and persistently elevated, expansive, or irritable mood, lasting at least 1 week (or any duration if hospitalization is necessary).

B. During the period of mood disturbance, three (or more) of the following symptoms have persisted (four if the mood is only irritable) and have been present to a significant degree:

1. inflated self-esteem or grandiosity
2. decreased need for sleep (e.g., feels rested after only 3 hours of sleep)
3. more talkative than usual or pressure to keep talking
4. flight of ideas or subjective experience that thoughts are racing
5. distractibility (i.e., attention too easily drawn to unimportant or irrelevant external stimuli)
6. increase in goal-directed activity (either socially, at work or school, or sexually) or psychomotor agitation
7. excessive involvement in pleasurable activities that have a high potential for painful consequences (e.g., engaging in unrestrained buying sprees, sexual indiscretions, or foolish business investments)

C. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (see Criteria for Mixed Episode).

D. The mood disturbance is sufficiently severe to cause marked impairment in occupational functioning or in usual social activities or relationships with others, or to necessitate hospitalization to prevent harm to self or others, or there are psychotic features.

E. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).

Note: Manic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive therapy, light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar I Disorder.


Criteria for Major Depressive Episode

A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.Note: Do not include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.

1. depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by
others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.
2. markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account
or observation made by others)
3. significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in
appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains.
4. insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day
5. psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)
6. fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day
7. feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about
being sick)
8. diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)
9. recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for
committing suicide

B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode (see Criteria for Mixed Episode).

C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation.


To be diagnosed with any personality disorder to begin with, your symptoms need to be stable over time and across different contexts (a.k.a. you need to have experienced the symptoms for years since at least early adulthood, and you need to experience the symptoms regardless of the context. If the symptoms come and go episodically that suggests a non-personality disorder).


Diagnostic criteria for 301.83 Borderline Personality Disorder

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation
3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self
4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note:
Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.
5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior
6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only
rarely more than a few days)
7. chronic feelings of emptiness
8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms


Again - NONE OF THIS CAN REPLACE SEEING A PROPER PROFESSIONAL TO GET A DIAGNOSIS. It is a terrible idea to rely solely on self-diagnosis without confirmation, especially in your case where it looks like you've diagnosed yourself with half the diagnoses in the book.

Lol, interesting you'd say that. I refused to even join Wrong Planet until got a confirmed ASD diagnosis. Half the people there are self-diagnosed. I'm not self-diagnosing, but rather, trying to become more self-aware so that when I do see a professional, the time is used productively.

I definitely have some mood issues and a rejection complex, and I have social problems that social skills alone do not account for; thus, I believe I have either a personality disorder or sub-clinical tendencies for one. Thus, it makes sense to consider AVPD, BPD, and bipolar.

I am meeting with a professional next week; she has been out of town for a few weeks. I honestly think AVPD is the only one that fits beyond a shadow of a doubt, and if psychologist diagnoses count, then I already have a DX for that one. Bipolar would take more observation, and BPD is very questionable.

Sorry, that was unfair/harsh of me. Irritable mood. I personally disagree with long-term self diagnosis (initial, sure, but any diagnosis of a serious disorder should be confirmed by a professional). I do agree that researching yourself is a good idea while waiting on a meeting. That's good that you are seeing a professional about it.

Hmm, have you considered you may have Social Anxiety instead of AvPD? AvPD is basically another way of just saying "Severe Social Anxiety", really.

And I know how tempting it is, but don't research to much into it. Perphaps you don't have it, but it's easy to see that you have symptoms of one disorder by looking on the web (I'm not being mean, I've done it myself, several times. I've diagnosed myself with a brain tumour before.) And hope everything goes well with the professional.

So far I remember in 60% of the cases AcPD and social anxiety are overlapping.



Me too.
Well exept the part with the brain tumor.
It harms more than it helps. It's better to go to a professionell.