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Eddy98
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15 Jun 2022, 11:28 am

Hey ho!

I've a question, that is already in the title: I have psychosis, am part of the schizophrenic spectrum. But is psychosis also a neurodivergent "disorder"?

Would love some answers!

Love&hugs, Ed



IsabellaLinton
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15 Jun 2022, 1:38 pm



Stephanie Bethany - "Why You're Probably Not Neurodivergent"


I'm attaching this video because I found it interesting.

I'm sorry that the title is "you're probably not neurodivergent ..."
I'm not trying to say that you aren't neurodiverse. I didn't name the video. 8)

I saw it a few months ago and I thought it was really comprehensive.

Maybe it will help.



kraftiekortie
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15 Jun 2022, 3:29 pm

My amateur take on this:

Being psychotic COULD be part of being neurodivergent. But the presence of psychosis is certainly NOT a diagnostic feature of autism.

Ironically, the term "autism" was first used, by Eugen Bleuler around 1911, to describe the "detached from objective reality" thought processes of people with "dementia praecox," later known as schizophrenia. But the term "autism" is not used in this sense at present.



1986
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15 Jun 2022, 9:49 pm

Psychosis is a symptom, and schizophrenia is an illness. Autism is a neurological condition one is born with, whereas you are born with a certain vulnerability (not certainty) to develop schizophrenia. There is reliable medical treatment for psychosis but not for autism. Whether they can both be called neurodivergent is of importance to the neurodivergence movement rather than clinical psychiatry. Since neurodivergence is a social rather than scientific concept I think the criteria for what can and cannot be included is vaguer than in medicine.



Eddy98
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16 Jun 2022, 8:19 am

Now Im confused, I never mentioned autism?! I asked if psychosis is part of being neurodivergent, which isnt always about autism. ADHD, OCD, Tourette Syndrom, Depression etc are also neurodivergent. It used to be all about autism but it isnt anymore ( https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-ne ... nt-5196627 ). I know that autism has nothing to do with psychosis, they just happen to co-exist in my brain. Which makes me neurodivergent nonethenless. But is my psychosis part of it as well since I have it constantly for years now?



IsabellaLinton
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17 Jun 2022, 12:25 am

I replied by saying neurodivergence refers to a brain difference with which people are born. It can't be changed with medication or therapy. Neurodiversity (as a movement) is about celebrating neuro-difference.


To the best of my understanding,
If you're autistic then yes you are neurodivergent.
If you're also psychotic then you are an ND with psychosis.

Psychosis is a brain difference and there's no shame in it, but it's a mental illness rather than a neurodevelopmental condition.

Psychosis isn't normally celebrated, and it can be treated or at least managed with intervention.

Did you watch the video?
The presenter references a lot of sources and makes a good case for what ND means.
I'm not saying she's right, because I don't gatekeep for Neurodiversity.
I think her explanation makes a lot of sense in the context of the ND Movement's goals.

Just to clarify, I didn't say anything about Psychosis vs. Autism in my post.



naturalplastic
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17 Jun 2022, 12:47 am

Psychosis is one thing.

Autism is something else.

You can be both autistic and psychotic just like you can be both Jewish AND left handed, but handedness, and religion are two different realms (two different "spectra").



Eddy98
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17 Jun 2022, 4:30 am

IsabellaLinton wrote:
I replied by saying neurodivergence refers to a brain difference with which people are born. It can't be changed with medication or therapy. Neurodiversity (as a movement) is about celebrating neuro-difference.


To the best of my understanding,
If you're autistic then yes you are neurodivergent.
If you're also psychotic then you are an ND with psychosis.

Psychosis is a brain difference and there's no shame in it, but it's a mental illness rather than a neurodevelopmental condition.

Psychosis isn't normally celebrated, and it can be treated or at least managed with intervention.

Did you watch the video?
The presenter references a lot of sources and makes a good case for what ND means.
I'm not saying she's right, because I don't gatekeep for Neurodiversity.
I think her explanation makes a lot of sense in the context of the ND Movement's goals.

Just to clarify, I didn't say anything about Psychosis vs. Autism in my post.



Ahh now I understand more, thank you. And Im sorry for my misunderstanding, I have struggles with that since the beginning of my time. I tend to misunderstand almost everything, which is why I ask to make it more clear, what can be annoying for others. Please do not see that as an attack, but as a simple misunderstanding. And thank you for your answer, I appreciate it :)



eyelessshiver
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21 Jun 2022, 10:05 am

I think...possibly, it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurodiversity

"The neurodiversity paradigm was taken up first by autistic people.[30][31] Subsequently, it was applied to other neurodevelopmental and/or neuropsychiatric conditions such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), developmental speech disorders, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia,[32] dyscalculia, dysnomia, intellectual disability and Tourette syndrome,[31][33] as well as schizophrenia,[5][34] bipolar disorder,[35] schizoaffective disorder, and antisocial personality disorder.[36] Neurodiversity advocates denounce the framing of neurodevelopmental disorders as requiring medical intervention to "cure" or "fix" them, and instead promote support systems such as inclusion-focused services, accommodations, communication and assistive technologies, occupational training, and independent living support.[37][38] The intention is for individuals to receive support that honours authentic forms of human diversity, self-expression, and being, rather than treatment which coerces or forces them to adopt normative ideas of normality, or to conform to a clinical ideal.[39][better source needed]"

Neurodiversity "movement" is itself a kind of paradigm...where taking a condition seen as pathological and de-pathologizing it...yeah it might have started with autism (and that might be the first people think of when they hear the word), but this kind of thinking has been extended to other conditions, including psychotic "illnesses" like schizophrenia.



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11 Jul 2022, 2:53 am

I think being neurodivergent can make some people more prone to experiencing psychosis. I'm autistic along with having various other mental things & I fell into a psychotic depression when I was 20 due to my 1st relationship falling apart. I think being autistic was a big factor. My autism contributed to me majorly struggling with life at the time with the transition to adulthood. My mom was on my back alot about me spending too much time alone in my room on computer instead of working. I was putting in apps for any job I thought I could do & get to but I almost never got interviews.

My ex was the 1st person I ever really connected with & related to. I started believing things were going on with her that weren't. I developed sever anxiety about losing her & it caused me to have regular panic attacks. I become controlling in an attempt to protect her & not lose her. I became very unstable & I kinda lost my grip on reality with various things & started not knowing what was real & what was just in my f#cked-up head in general. Getting on psych meds(antidepressant, antipsychotic, & Lithium/mood stabilizer) helped me get out of that funk & also helped that I got a job & started being out around people more. I think that if I was not autistic I would have handled things better.


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18 Jul 2022, 4:16 pm

I think of neurodivergence as innate, biologically based differences in brain function, and many causes of psychosis qualify.

However, psychosis is a symptom, and there are psychotic people I wouldn't consider neurodivergent. For example, someone who is high on LSD is psychotic, but only temporarily and for a clear environmental reason, so I wouldn't consider that neurodivergence. Similarly, someone suffering from acute kidney failure could be psychotic, but I'd say that's more of a medical condition than a neurodivergence.

But someone with one of the DSM-V defined category of psychotic disorders would be neurodivergent in my opinion.