Jeez, some trans women can be extremely hateful to opponents

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My daughters best friend is trans and doesn't want to have any surgeries or take hormones but dresses and lives as a male. He was frustrated for a while when it took his friends a while to switch to male pronouns and the male version of his name because that was pretty important to him and the way he not only saw himself but how he felt the world saw him.

I certainly understand his position and preferences about that topic and about how important it is to him. What I honestly don't understand though, is how someone could feel they have the right to demand that a medical procedure, specifically SRS, be referred to in any particular way with regards to "sex change operation" vs "sex reassignment surgery" although I've certainly seen people here expect it from others, even to the point of accusing someone of harrassing them personally by using the phrase "sex change operation". Of course that's probably more important than calling someone what they prefer to be called, I guess.

Oh well, you just never know do you?

I know I would have struggled. There's a trans man who's had a double mammectomy and has a friggin' beard and mustache; the only thing about him is that he's short. And yet, I still found myself almost using female pronouns like all the time to refer to this person. I had to make sure to catch it and I slipped up a couple times, which I quickly corrected.

This is what went into part of my decision of letting people call me by whatever pronouns they find natural. I don't wanna put people through that.

I try to remember to call the child "he". I slip up some times but he's cool with that because he knows I have trouble remembering just about anything right now with my menopause. I'm the only supportive adult in his life right now because his mother is right at the point of kicking him out for being gay. That's insane in my opinion. He's the sweetest and most polite kid, and his mother has a treasure there but doesn't want him simply cause he's gay and her religion is against it. He bought a binder and some boy clothes and has things mailed here rather than his house cause of his mom. I bought him some boy hygeine things and took him and my daughter school shopping so he could get clothes he wanted. He talked to me about how upset he was about how his friends keep calling him she and her, and I talked to them and they honestly didn't think he cared and thought he was joking about saying it upset him. They use exclusively male pronouns with him now. I think that's much better for him. He said I'm the only one who knows and is still allowed to call him by his legal name or she and her sometimes without offending him lol. He's made accommodations for my age and crazy hormonal status it seems lol! Then again, I end up calling any of the kids by another kids name from time to time and they answer anyway. I think that's mainly cause I always have snacks.

"I call it like I see it":

http://bugbrennan.com/2012/11/26/i-call ... -i-see-it/

Lolz. Keep sharing those pearls of wisdom. Have you ever considered your growing bitterness (dare I say hatred) towards the trans community might be borne out of your obsession in getting SRS, and then throwing a hissyfit with your toys out of the pram at the trans community, when it became clear it wasn't soon over the horizon due to the backwards-ass medical system you have in the states?

Actually, I had that "I call it like I see it" attitude prior to even applying for preauthorization. I generally would not correct people who misgendered me, because I would want them to be able to act naturally around me.

"Peak trans" was a long time in coming, too. I could befriend trans men pretty well, but I generally disliked the personalities of most trans women I met in real life. I disliked going to a trans group and having the discussion be all about video games, the latest technology, the true meaning of the color red, and other BS topics, and a few trans women would always dominate the discussion. It always seemed like a bunch of dudes gathered up outside a gas station convenience store smoking and shooting the $#!7, even though this was primarily supposed to be a support group. Many people, including myself, who came for support generally felt shut out.

There were some trans women that were all right, mostly the ones who transitioned and started hormones in or by high school and generally had a real life (like a partner, friends, etc.), but they seemed heavily outweighed by those who weren't.

Of course, I'm one to talk, being either autistic or schizophrenic (my doctors can't decide which one it is, but I went psychotic at 14) and enjoying some discussion of video games myself. I'm generally a loner.

I had great difficulty tolerating such groups.

What SHE did was wrong and abhorrent, but Cathy Brennan is also a hateful bigot who isn't above this either. https://nametheterfs.wordpress.com/2014 ... y-brennan/

This woman doesn't just hate trans people - she thinks they should die. Trans women are waaaaaaaaaay more likely to be violently attacked than cis women. Heck, even cis men face violence more often than women (just check the homicide rates, for instance - men make up the cast majority of victims). So while her behaviour was disgusting, abhorrent and unacceptable, don't pretend that Brennan is just some helpless victim.

Beneficii, I'm getting quite concerned by your TERF posts, lately.

Source? A lot of people say that about Cathy Brennan, but I have never seen evidence of it. In fact, if you read her letter to the UN carefully, she distinguishes between trans people undergoing actual medical and legal transition and those who are not, but simply claim to be the opposite sex.

This is why some of the trans people I've known (especially older trans people) place so much importance on passing. If you pass then people's natural tendency to use certain pronouns will change. It sucks but a lot of it depends on your appearance. If people's natural tendency to refer to you using certain pronouns matches those you want to life becomes easier. Once you are invisible life becomes easier. I'm not saying it will get better because you may never be invisible.

I'm coming from a privileged position because starting hormones early in life with financial support from accepting parents has allowed me to blend in with cis-women more easily. I'm never referred to with male pronouns now. I sometimes worry that people are just being nice but then I think about the times I've been hit on by straight men and I listen to stories like yours (where people don't just be nice and courteous to you with pronoun usage) and I realize I probably pass to some extent. I wish the quality of life of a trans person wasn't so dependant on the ability to pass but that's the way it seems to be. Younger trans people don't know that and assume that they should be respected regardless of whether or not they pass. They're probably right from a moral standpoint but that's not how the world works. I agree with them ethically but passing is an asset for me realistically.

I can't empathize with you the same way someone who lives as a trans-woman and doesn't pass can. I wish passing wasn't such a crucial factor in quality of life. I wish the effects of the first puberty weren't so irreversible. I wish gatekeepers wouldn't bar people from transition on the basis of sanism.

Sadly those wishes aren't the reality. Starting male puberty late in life and then starting female hormones at the age of 17 means that I have been sheltered from what you have had to endure. That's my "passing privilege". It's just not fair. You shouldn't have to face all the problems that you're facing but you are and it's not just the trans community that is at fault. Everyone is at fault. Human nature is probably at fault.

If you have to be phobic you might as well be xenophobic and not just trans-phobic. Why do you lash out exclusively at trans people and not the society that makes life as a trans person hard?

Also Beneficii, I have another question.

At what age did you start hormone replacement therapy?

26.

Problems? What problems? I've accepted that 1.) just like I never learnt how to throw a Frisbee correctly even with constant training from people pointing out the correct techniques (which I would use once or twice and then revert to my old habits) and 2.) just like I never learnt how to have proper posture (even with training and people moving me into the correct place) so I had trouble learning to fire a rifle correctly, I will probably never be able to really learn the things that make one pass.

It's just something I've accepted.



Because I place importance on passing in terms of whether you are treated as the target sex. If you don't pass, then don't expect the pronouns you want. Personally, I'd be loathe to use feminine pronouns to refer to a trans woman who looks very much like a dude, and I think this is simply naturally true of most people; I don't want to force people to act unnaturally or pretend I pass when I really don't.

This is something that I've accepted.

Also, I'd like to add that not passing is actually highly advantageous, as that means I am placed in Class: Men and so get male privilege. I've received very little hassle over my trans status from anybody, even as I'm constantly misgendered. To avoid such hassle, I simply avoid clothing that very sharply contrasts with my physical apperance (like a dress, which would look more like a men's robe from Star Wars on me), and dress very androgynously. This allows me, in practice, to tap greatly into male privilege.

You, on the other hand, seaturtleisland, are much more like to fall into Class: Women and have to deal with the disadvantages there.

Don't worry about having passing privilege or anything, as there is no such thing (except perhaps for trans men who would then get male privilege). Be assertive like one early transitioner I saw on a web forum I have long since been banned from. When she met with older transitioners, she was thoroughly creeped out by them, and she was even sexually assaulted by one of them. She gives no apology that she transitioned earlier and is seen as being in Class: Women, as she understands the vulnerability that puts her in. She's not "privileged" for passing.

I did give a source. You just didn't look at it. She literally said that she wished trans people would die already.

Was it Cathy Brennan that made that post? It seems rather uncharacteristic for her, where in many cases she supports trans people in litigation and those who are taking other avenues. If you were to read her actual websites, you would understand how uncharacteristic it is.

Cathy has previously documented cases where trans people impersonate her, so I wonder if this is not another case of impersonation.