Why won't anyone refer to me as "it"?

Page 3 of 4 [ 56 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Previous topic | Next topic

invisiblespectrum
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 18 Oct 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 71

24 Oct 2011, 7:58 pm

diniesaur wrote:

I guess I can see why they would think it's insulting, but if I tell them "it" doesn't insult me, why do they still think it's insulting?

We've been conditioned to think of calling someone "it" as a bad thing. You saying you're not insulted by it is not going to stop people from feeling very uncomfortable with it.

It's kind of like if I, as a gay person, asked people to call me "fa***t," assuring them that I didn't find it offensive. They probably still wouldn't want to say it.

Honestly, if you asked me to refer to you as "it," I'm not sure how I'd respond to that. I'm usually happy to use whatever pronouns people prefer, but "it" does feel wrong to me, to refer to a person.

diniesaur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 758
Location: in the Ministry of Silly Walks

24 Oct 2011, 8:30 pm

Oh! I get it! Like if someone wanted me to call them the n word! I wouldn't like doing that. I wouldn't be bothered by calling someone Asshat, though.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

24 Oct 2011, 8:38 pm

diniesaur wrote:

Oh! I get it! Like if someone wanted me to call them the n word!

It's similar, but even that doesn't entirely dehumanise someone as a person. It's just a very insulting way to describe someone.

Calling someone "It" implies that they are not even a person to begin with.

mori_pastel
Sea Gull

Joined: 11 May 2011
Age: 34
Gender: Female
Posts: 219
Location: GA, USA

24 Oct 2011, 9:31 pm

Tequila wrote:

diniesaur wrote:

Oh! I get it! Like if someone wanted me to call them the n word!

Could be the same, depending on your perspective. I mean, going to assume that that particular term has been frequently used to mean "less than human," what with the slavery issue and all.

Anyway, diniesaur, yeah. I'd give up on "it."

invisiblespectrum
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

Joined: 18 Oct 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 71

25 Oct 2011, 12:51 am

Also, for what it's worth, I know more than one trans person who has been called "it" specifically as a way of demeaning them based on their gender. So not only is it generally a bad thing to call someone, it's a sort of transphobic slur, hence my "fa***t" example.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

25 Oct 2011, 3:33 am

invisiblespectrum wrote:

People even get quite upset when you call their babies 'It' (based on personal experience!) so calling an adult that isn't going to fly.

diniesaur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 758
Location: in the Ministry of Silly Walks

25 Oct 2011, 8:50 am

I have an idea. Would they be offended if I wanted them to call me "that"?

strangethingie
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 36

25 Oct 2011, 9:45 am

I would quite surely say yes, because 'that' and 'it' are more or less the same thing ain't they?

I mean the only reason I personally would call or refer to someone as 'it' or 'that' is if I wanted to insult someone. like if someone I didn't like walked past me dressed up as a dog's dinner, I'd say "omg look at 'that'" or "omg did you see whats-a-face, 'it' was dressed like a dogs dinner!"

Also I think 'it' and 'that' are such nondescript words that they are used to describe things we don't recognise or know what something is. So I suppose that people don't feel comfortable calling you 'it' or 'that' is not only because it is insulting in most circumstances, but also because they know your a human being and human beings come in 2 flavours (so to speak) male and female, he and she, him and her!

I've probally confused eveyone now lol

_________________
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe

diniesaur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 758
Location: in the Ministry of Silly Walks

25 Oct 2011, 10:19 am

I disagree with humans only being able to be male or female. The entire point of me being called "it" or "that" is so that I can avoid being crammed into a "male" or "female" box.

visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

25 Oct 2011, 10:29 am

diniesaur wrote:

I have an idea. Would they be offended if I wanted them to call me "that"?

I think "offended," might be the wrong word. I would say, "uncomfortable."

NTs work on a different interpersonal level than we do. If you tell me that you prefer to be referred to as, "it," I am happy to do so in private--you've told me you prefer it and it costs me nothing to comply with your wishes. But note, I said, "in private." I would be far less comfortable doing so in a public sphere, because there would be a variety of other people who would not know that you had quite specifically asked to be referred to in this way.

Now take it out one step further. When an NT is speaking with you, part of the interpersonal communication toolkit that the NT has is to project the NT's own understanding into your circumstance. But when your expressed preference puts the NT's projection into a dehumanizing place, that may well be just as uncomfortable for the NT as being referred to in that way directly.

I think, at root, we undertand the Golden Rule differently. NT's intuitively understand, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." We understand better, "do unto others as they have asked you to do."

_________________
--James

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

25 Oct 2011, 2:37 pm

diniesaur wrote:

I disagree with humans only being able to be male or female. The entire point of me being called "it" or "that" is so that I can avoid being crammed into a "male" or "female" box.

But in doing so you remove not only your gender but really your sense of personhood. The English language wasn't really built for people unsure about their gender, bi-gender people and all the rest.

In Britain, also, the use of 'that' when applied to a person, usually a woman, has an extremely derogatory connotation, i.e. "You didn't sleep with that, did you?", or "I'm not going anywhere near that thing!", making this a phrase also to be avoided.

And you would still have the problem of being referred to as an object.

Wouldn't it be better just to drop the whole thing and settle for one gender or the other in casual conversation and revealing your true identity to people once they get to know you better?

diniesaur
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 2 Sep 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 758
Location: in the Ministry of Silly Walks

25 Oct 2011, 5:29 pm

Tequila, it's not really that easy. Right now, people refer to me as "she." I don't like this because people automatically assume I'm female because of it. They think I feel like a female, act like a female, think like a female, and care about things females care about. I CAN'T STAND IT! I'm not one of them. It's bad enough to have size D breasts that won't bind, but when people think I'm okay with being referred to as female, it drives me crazy. I need some tangible separation from them to be happy. That's why I'm so frustrated.

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

25 Oct 2011, 5:36 pm

The only other pronoun I can think of would be 'zhe' or something like that but no-one ever uses it and very few people would understand why you'd want to be referred to by a pronoun they'd never heard of and would likely have you down as a nutter. Basically you're stuck with it (no pun intended).

Dessie
Pileated woodpecker

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 177

25 Oct 2011, 5:43 pm

diniesaur wrote:

I don't feel female. I usually have a strong resistance to the idea of me being female, or doing things "because I'm female," or wearing a dress/makeup/skirt, etc. The only time when I even remotely feel female is when I'm on my period, and only at certain times--usually the ones where I'm not in a fetal position and throwing up from the pain of my menstrual cramps. I have no identififcation with females as a group.
Also, I feel male a lot. A lot of times, I want a penis, and I always want my leg hair to be longer than that of males. I also get really happy when I am mistaken for a biological male, and I really want testosterone because I feel like I'm not masculine enough without it. I also want big, bulgey, strong muscles--the kind people without much testosterone can't get without steroids. I don't feel male all the time--sometimes I feel just like a person, and I don't think about feeling male or female. Other times, I feel very strongly male, and a very, VERY small minority of the time, I feel female.

I don't know if I'm transgender or not, and I can't find out until my brother (now four) is no longer under the control of my mom, since she says that she will not let him see me again if I "pursue" it (it's a long story, but basically she thinks I may be influenced by my sociopath ex). She does, however, believe that I have a strong male side. She believes that I may not be completely female. I get frustrated a lot because I can't wear a binder anymore because my mom took it away, and I want people to not feel sorry for me when they mistake me for a male.

In light of all this, I have asked people to use the pronoun "it" when referring to me several times, but they won't do it. They think it's insulting for some reason, and I want them to not so they can refer to me as "it." How can I get them to at least refer to me as "it"?

What you're going through sounds a lot like my life right now, only I've never wanted a penis, and my period only makes me want to not be female.

Gender is a spectrum, just like Autism is.

It's male, female, and every variant you could possibly imagine.

You may want to take a look at the Wikipedia page for Genderqueer. You may find it as enlightening as I did.

Quote:

Genderqueer (GQ; alternatively non-binary) is a catch-all term for gender identities other than man and woman, thus outside of the gender binary and heteronormativity.[1] People who identify as genderqueer may think of themselves as one or more of the following:

both man and woman (bigender, pangender);
neither man nor woman (genderless, agender);
moving between genders (genderfluid);[2]
third gender or other-gendered; includes those who do not place a name to their gender;[3]
having an overlap of, or blurred lines between, gender identity and sexual orientation.[4][5]

Lastly, you say you want to be called it, but you're having problems convincing people to do that. For some reason people view calling others "it" as an insult.

Have you considered trying other gender neutral pronouns? There are actually a ton of them. "Zi" and "Zir" are common ones. So is just using "one".

See this Wikipedia page for a table of them: Gender neutral pronouns

Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

25 Oct 2011, 5:46 pm

Dessie wrote:

So is just using "one".

You can't use 'One'; you'll be a laughing stock.

strangethingie
Tufted Titmouse

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 36

26 Oct 2011, 9:47 am

I've had a brain wave! ........ why don't you just ask people to refer to you by your name???? :jester:

_________________
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe

Page 3 of 4 [ 56 posts ] Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Jump to:

Why won't anyone refer to me as "it"? Post Reply New Topic

Why won't anyone refer to me as "it"?