Is being gay wrong according to the bible?

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the bible says two men shouldn't relate to each other like a husband and wife because the very idea of treating a man the way a biblical husband treats his wife is abhorrent. (this is because treating a person the way women in the bible are treated is abhorrent.)

read Deuteronomy 22. Read 1 Timothy 2. the bible is a deeply misogynist book, and it forbids treating a man the way it commands men to treat women because it recognizes that this would be a form of horrible violence. biblical womanhood is oppression and subjugation. in the bible slaves are at least as likely as women, if not moreso, to act as autonomous agents.

the bible abhors gay sex because the bible thinks sex is about dominance and submission. there isn't even room for a relationship between equal partners in traditional judeo-christian philosophy. it doesn't forbid modern egalitarian gay relationships, it assumes we can't exist.

Yes.

The law of Moses was only the Jews/House of Israel and only as a preparatory law to prepare for the coming of Christ. The law of Moses did not exist before the exodus. Abraham, and Isaac, Joseph, Adam, and Noah, and the pre-flood peoples did not have any Law of Moses. And the law doesn't go away, but it's not viable anymore. You don't prepare for what's already done. To really simplify an anology with cooking. You have to prep your cooking space to cook thanksgiving dinner before the food is cooked, not after the thanksgiving meal is already out and waiting to be served. Christ has come to earth. There is no need to prepare anymore. He brought the fullness of the gospel for everyone(gentiles) and the Jews/House of Israel were supposed to no longer required the training wheel Law of Moses for messing up with the Golden Calf.

Equality as we understand it today was apparently not part of what he preached, not in that sense of the word. Don't think the Jews at the time were in a position where they could subject anybody to genocide though, but I think it doesn't make wit to understand it goes against the word of the New Testament.

I think I do understand what you mean though; that society can change the legal status of homosexual relationships and Christians will just adapt to it, and they already are adapting in many Western countries (and they already have in the past).

I wonder how these worldwide religions will maintain a consistent doctrine if in Western countries they permit gay marriage, and in say Africa, they condemn it.

The Law of Moses is perfect and is Gods will, then and now.
The thing is, it was used as "a Tutor leading to the Christ" in that it demonstrated to Mankind that Man is not able to bring about his own salvation by his own works, Sin has far to strong a hold over man.
Mankind thus learned why we need Jesus sacrifice and mercy for salvation, because we learned by the Mosiac law we couldn't earn it for ourselves.

This doesnt mean that the Mosiac Law was wrong in any way, or that God changed his mind about things, its principles still stand, its just that we are no longer required to follow it as the vehicle to our salvation is now the Christ, this is why the Law was described as "Accursed" and subsequently fulfilled prophesy by being nailed to the cross:- http://biblehub.com/galatians/3-13.htm

The Circumcision Issue when some of the first Jewish Converts tried to have Gentile converts to Christianity circumcised brought the question up as to if Christians still have to follow any of the Mosiac Law and was answered something along the lines of if you insist on still following any of the Law, you have rejected the Christ and therefor you would be under obligation to follow the whole Law, just like the Jews had to.

Things are clarified further elsewhere where the commandment to Love God and Love your neighbour pretty much cover the law anyway except for maybe the dietary laws.
The only other commandment Christians were still obliged to obey was further along in Acts 15 :-

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

Sexual immorality I would imagine include any sex outside wedlock including homosexual acts.

My view therefore is that you dont have to follow any of the Law except that listed above.
But just as the Mosiac Law proved, Man is too enslaved to sin to follow laws anyway so you are still reliant on Jesus sacrifice and mercy.

But dont be tempted as the Bible warns elsewhere, to use such mercy as a license to debauchery, do what you can to please God but its not your total ability to behave correctly that saves you

Who cares what the Bible says?

It's just a Bronze Age book with Bronze Age values.

"As of the early 21st century, Christianity has around 2.1 billion adherents (believers)"

176,400,000 Christian people in United States which is 78.4% of the population

from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian

It was a rhetorical question.

But it is unfortunate that so many people are self-deluded.

Nowhere as unfortunate as your complete lack of empathy and even a tiny bit of decency however (to say nothing about unrelated qualities such as intelligence).

Christians always refer to Sodom only declaring "homosexuality" yet leave out the rape aspect.

Sodomy= anal rape.

Why leave it out? They must endorse rape secretly so they have to cover that up by blaming consenting gays.

Yeah and those were the old testament. Most Christians now will declare the old rules don't apply to them because of Jesus (which isn't his real name). The new testament changed all of that...but ONLY if you bring up the ridiculous rules. When it comes to the old testament's tithe...oh that's still okay.

Also, women did not come from the rib of Adam. Men have been banging their chests declaring their superiority over women over this crap. Science has revealed, women came first. Guess what? Now men are proclaiming their dominance because their chromosome is evolving quicker yet...where's the action to back that up?

The more someone is oppressed and repressed, the more the oppressor is really hiding just how weak they are. It's like how those that scream the loudest usually reveal that their actions are weaker. It's a show.

The bible is man controlled. What has come of it is not what "Jesus" would do.

Also if you check out the old testament rules and abominations, those are not the same as the ten commandments clearly! "Jesus" said he did not come here to get rid of the ten commandments. Those are the true rules. These abominations were society rules.

Then there are the seven deadly sins. They make sense. Even non-believers who have a moral compass know when someone is being unfair, judgemental and mean-spirited and it isn't what we should aspire to be however so many people lack empathy these days that sometimes the only way they get what they were doing was wrong is if you reverse it on them.


So let's take a look at the abominations.

(These are not something a god would come up with. These are society rules from back in those times.) Abomination means something that is despised, you will be hated for it, something that is just considered nasty and/or could cause you to be put to death. Does that sound like the same god with the ten commandments? I don't think so. Christians want to oppress and hate people. So much so that you wonder if they are really worshipping god (they can't be bothered to respect Jesus' real name or god's.) s this evil deity called satan so clever that it has been delivering the seed of hate in the guise of good? When you aren't allowed to question, you know you are in a cult and full of deceivers.)

Abominations to Other Peoples

Genesis 43:32 They served him by himself, and them by themselves, and the Egyptians who ate with him by themselves, because the Egyptians might not eat bread with the Hebrews, for that is an abomination to the Egyptians.

Genesis 46:34 you shall say, 'Your servants have been keepers of cattle from our youth even until now, both we and our fathers,' in order that you may dwell in the land of Goshen; for every shepherd is an abomination to the Egyptians."

Proverbs 13:19 A desire fulfilled is sweet to the soul; but to turn away from evil is an abomination to fools.

Proverbs 29:27 - (2) An unjust man is an abomination to the righteous, but he whose way is straight is an abomination to the wicked.

Dietary Abominations

Leviticus 7:18 If any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offering is eaten on the third day, he who offers it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be credited to him; it shall be an abomination, and he who eats of it shall bear his iniquity.

Leviticus 11:10-19 - (6) "But anything in the seas or the rivers that has not fins and scales, of the swarming creatures in the waters and of the living creatures that are in the waters, is an abomination to you. They shall remain an abomination to you; of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall have in abomination. Everything in the waters that has not fins and scales is an abomination to you."

"And these you shall have in abomination among the birds, they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the osprey, the kite, the falcon according to its kind, every raven according to its kind, the ostrich, the nighthawk, the sea gull, the hawk according to its kind, the owl, the cormorant, the ibis, the water hen, the pelican, the carrion vulture, the stork, the heron according to its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat."

Leviticus 11:20 "All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you."

Leviticus 11:23 "But all other winged insects which have four feet are an abomination to you."

Leviticus 11:41 "Every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth is an abomination; it shall not be eaten."

Leviticus 11:42 "Whatever goes on its belly, and whatever goes on all fours, or whatever has many feet, all the swarming things that swarm upon the earth, you shall not eat; for they are an abomination."

Leviticus 19:7 "If it is eaten at all on the third day, it is an abomination."

Isaiah 66:17 "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, says the LORD."

Improper Worship/Sacrifice

Deuteronomy 7:25 The graven images of their gods you shall burn with fire; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, or take it for yourselves, lest you be ensnared by it; for it is an abomination to the LORD your God.

Deuteronomy 17:1 "You shall not sacrifice to the LORD your God an ox or a sheep in which is a blemish, any defect whatever; for that is an abomination to the LORD your God."

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 "When you come into the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD; and because of these abominable practices the LORD your God is driving them out before you."

Deuteronomy 27:15 "'Cursed be the man who makes a graven or molten image, an abomination to the LORD, a thing made by the hands of a craftsman, and sets it up in secret.'"

1 Kings 11:5 For Solomon went after Ash'toreth the goddess of the Sido'nians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. (Foreign god who demanded human sacrifice.)

1 Kings 11:7 - (2) Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, and for Molech the abomination of the Ammonites, on the mountain east of Jerusalem. (Foreign gods who demanded human sacrifice.)

2 Kings 23:13 - (3) And the king defiled the high places that were east of Jerusalem, to the south of the mount of corruption, which Solomon the king of Israel had built for Ash'toreth the abomination of the Sido'nians, and for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, and for Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. (Foreign gods who demanded human sacrifice.)

Proverbs 15:8 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination; how much more when he brings it with evil intent.

Isaiah 1:13 Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and sabbath and the calling of assemblies--I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.

Isaiah 44:19 No one considers, nor is there knowledge or discernment to say, "Half of it I burned in the fire, I also baked bread on its coals, I roasted flesh and have eaten; and shall I make the residue of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?"

Jeremiah 32:35 They built the high places of Ba'al in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to offer up their sons and daughters to Molech, though I did not command them, nor did it enter into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.

Daniel 11:31 Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Divorce/Adultery

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 "When a man takes a wife and marries her, if then she finds no favor in his eyes because he has found some indecency in her, and he writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, and she departs out of his house, and if she goes and becomes another man's wife, and the latter husband dislikes her and writes her a bill of divorce and puts it in her hand and sends her out of his house, or if the latter husband dies, who took her to be his wife, then her former husband, who sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD, and you shall not bring guilt upon the land which the LORD your God gives you for an inheritance."

Ezekiel 22:11 One commits abomination with his neighbor's wife; another lewdly defiles his daughter-in-law; another in you defiles his sister, his father's daughter.

Leviticus 7:21 And if any one touches an unclean thing, whether the uncleanness of man or an unclean beast or any unclean abomination, and then eats of the flesh of the sacrifice of the LORD's peace offerings, that person shall be cut off from his people."

Love of Money

Jeremiah 6:15 "Were they ashamed when they committed abomination? No, they were not at all ashamed; they did not know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among those who fall; at the time that I punish them, they shall be overthrown," says the LORD. (Greed for unjust gain.)

Jeremiah 8:12 Were they ashamed when they committed abomination? No, they were not at all ashamed; they did not know how to blush. Therefore they shall fall among the fallen; when I punish them, they shall be overthrown, says the LORD. (Greed for unjust gain.)

Luke 16:15: But he said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.

Dishonest Trade

Deuteronomy 25:13-16 "You shall not have in your bag two kinds of weights, a large and a small. You shall not have in your house two kinds of measures, a large and a small. A full and just weight you shall have, a full and just measure you shall have; that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you. For all who do such things, all who act dishonestly, are an abomination to the LORD your God."

Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is an abomination to the LORD, but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 20:10 Diverse weights and diverse measures are both alike an abomination to the LORD.

Proverbs 20:23 Diverse weights are an abomination to the LORD, and false scales are not good.

Other Improper Behaviors

Deuteronomy 22:5 "A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God."

Deuteronomy 23:18 "You shall not bring the hire of a harlot, or the wages of a dog, into the house of the LORD your God in payment for any vow; for both of these are an abomination to the LORD your God."

Judges 20:6 "And I took my concubine and cut her in pieces, and sent her throughout all the country of the inheritance of Israel; for they have committed abomination and wantonness in Israel." (Referring to the rape and murder of the concubine of a Levite who was a guest.)

Proverbs 3:32 for the perverse man is an abomination to the LORD, but the upright are in his confidence.

Proverbs 6:16-19 There are six things which the LORD hates, seven which are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and a man who sows discord among brothers.

Proverbs 11:20 Men of perverse mind are an abomination to the LORD, but those of blameless ways are his delight.

Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Proverbs 16:5 Every one who is arrogant is an abomination to the LORD; be assured, he will not go unpunished.

Proverbs 17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the LORD.

Proverbs 28:9 If one turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.

Isaiah 41:24 Behold, you are nothing, and your work is naught; an abomination is he who chooses you. (Worshipers of people who set themselves up as gods.)

Malachi 2:11 Judah has been faithless, and abomination has been committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah has profaned the sanctuary of the LORD, which he loves, and has married the daughter of a foreign god.

Unspecified Wickedness

Proverbs 8:7 for my mouth will utter truth; wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

Proverbs 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, but he loves him who pursues righteousness.

Proverbs 15:26 The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD, the words of the pure are pleasing to him.

Proverbs 16:12 It is an abomination to kings to do evil, for the throne is established by righteousness.

Proverbs 24:9 The devising of folly is sin, and the scoffer is an abomination to men.

Jeremiah 2:7 And I brought you into a plentiful land to enjoy its fruits and its good things. But when you came in you defiled my land, and made my heritage an abomination.

Ezekiel 18:10-13 "If he begets a son who is a robber, a shedder of blood, who does none of these duties, but eats upon the mountains, defiles his neighbor's wife, oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore the pledge, lifts up his eyes to the idols, commits abomination, lends at interest, and takes increase; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominable things; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself."

Revelation 21:27: But nothing unclean shall enter it, nor any one who practices abomination or falsehood, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Lying with a Man as with a Woman

Leviticus 18:22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.



TAKE A GOOD LONG LOOK AT THIS LIST. EVERYONE HERE IS TO BE HATED AND TREATED BADLY.

When it comes to this question, I have always wondered the same thing. I have seen many arguments made. As a gay male christian, I always am concerned about this topic.
The person above me makes a very good argument. We all need to take a good look at everything the bible says and what society was like back then.

Correct, but I believe that Fnord was referring to Old Testament values, not the actions of Jews during the time of Jesus. In the Old Testament, Jewish armies conquered people and then subjected them to genocide on more than one occasion. The Old Testament events occurred a very long time before the New Testament events.

Jesus never married and spent all of his time hanging out with 12 dudes. Pretty sure the bible is a-ok with homos & it's homophobes using religion as an excuse to justify their hatred.

Today's Jews still celebrate said genocides as national holidays. Christians do not. I think it helps when the complaints are addressed to the right recipient.