Is being gay wrong according to the bible?

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Wivil
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30 Nov 2013, 12:04 pm

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Homosexuality-Wrong.html

This is a big clash in American Society and the only way to resolve this clash of LGBT community and the Christian religion is to talk about it and look at what the bible really says. Ignoring this conflict will only breed more ignorance and hatred on both sides. And as a Christian I believe that this hatred toward the LGBT community pushes many away from God and pushing someone away from God, in my opinion, is the worst thing a Christian can do.

If your not up to visiting the site at least check this out.

Don't Get Confused
“In the twenty first century many Christians confuse modern homosexuality, noncultic same sex attraction, with the ancient world’s sexual abuse of slaves, pederasty, rape of foreigners and pagan fertility rites. None of those ancient practices are analogs to modern homosexuality.”

There is no evidence in the Bible that God or OT Jews or Jesus Christ Himself understood Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13 as prohibiting committed, faithful, non-cultic, same sex partnerships. The - homosexuality wrong - idea comes from taking verses out of context.
(my opinion- keeping things within context in the bible is extremely important, if this is not done verses can be interpreted and twisted to meet someone's agenda)

Jesus mentioned Sodom - in Matthew 10:15 and 11:23, Mark 6:11, Luke 10:12 and 17:29 - but Jesus never mentioned homosexuality in connection with Sodom.

All views are welcome!

PLEASE BE RESPECTFULL WHEN PUTTING IN COMMENTS. THIS IS NOT A PLACE TO ACT LIKE JERKS BUT A PLACE TO DISCUSS A CONTROVERSY WITH NO FEAR OF PURSOCUTION. I HOPE EVERYONE CAN ACT MATURE HERE. :)
There is a lot more on the site! CHECK IT OUT!! ! :)



Last edited by Wivil on 30 Nov 2013, 5:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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30 Nov 2013, 1:10 pm

Does "Mature" mean "In Total Agreement With You"? I hope not.

In the original Hebrew:

18:22 כב וְאֶת-זָכָר--לֹא תִשְׁכַּב, מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה: תּוֹעֵבָה, הִוא.
(Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination.)

20:13 יג וְאִישׁ, אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת-זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה--תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ, שְׁנֵיהֶם; מוֹת יוּמָתוּ, דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם.
(And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.)

Very clearly, Levitican Law declares that homosexuality (e.g. "... a man lie with mankind, as with womankind ...") is wrong (e.g. "... an abomination ..."), and that those who do so are guilty (e.g. "... their blood shall be upon them ...") and that the only fitting punishment is death (e.g. "... they shall surely be put to death ...").

We discussed this many times in Seminary, and the conclusions were always the same: According to the Pentateuch (Leviticus, specifically), Homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God, no matter what any self-appointed "prophets" may teach.

Personally ... how lone individuals or two (or more) legally consenting adults get their jollies in private is none of my business.



LoveNotHate
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30 Nov 2013, 2:18 pm

Quote:
This is a big clash in American Society and the only way to resolve this clash of LGBT community and the Christian religion


It looks like the slow trend in America is to be non-religious. Perhaps, the clash will be resolved when enough older religious people die, and are replaced by younger non-religious.

Quoted: "The fastest growing "religious" group in America is made up of people with no religion at all, according to a Pew survey showing that one in five Americans is not affiliated with any religion. The number of these Americans has grown by 25% just in the past five years, according to a survey released Tuesday by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life".

See here, http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/0 ... ffiliated/

Quoted: "The number of Americans who do not identify with any religion also has grown in recent years; indeed, about one-fifth of the public overall – and a third of adults under age 30 – are religiously unaffiliated as of 2012. Fully a third of U.S. adults say they do not consider themselves a “religious person.” And two-thirds of Americans – affiliated and unaffiliated alike – say religion is losing its influence in Americans’ lives".

See here, http://www.pewforum.org/2013/07/02/grow ... n-society/

Atheist churches opening up in America ...

See here, http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... s/3489967/

I found this dubious website that presented these facts:

Of the 250,000 Protestant churches in America, 200,000 are either stagnant (with no growth) or declining. That is 80% of the churches in America and maybe the one you attend, if you attend at all.

4,000 churches close their doors every single year.

There is less than half of the number of churches today than there were only 100 years ago.

3,500 people leave the church every single day.

Since 1950, there are 1/3rd fewer churches in the U.S.

See here, http://www.patheos.com/blogs/christianc ... ed-states/



Fnord
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30 Nov 2013, 4:00 pm

Once religion is abolished, the Revolution begins.



redrobin62
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30 Nov 2013, 4:10 pm

I've always wondered how gay Christians and Jews justify their homosexuality. It's spelled out very clearly in the Bible that it's an abomination. Theoretically, shouldn't a believer adhere to those principles and abstain from anything that is deemed an abomination? The conflict would drive me crazy.

I do believe in churches, though. I didn't when I was a teenager. Back then I thought the church was to be despised as it blinded people to the wonders and truths of the world. Now that I'm older I see the good that churches do, like having dinners for the poor and sponsoring clothing and food banks.

Some churches even let you park and sleep in your car for days or weeks at a time. Of course, it took me being homeless to see what good churches can do, but it was worth it in the end.



Last edited by redrobin62 on 30 Nov 2013, 4:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Fnord
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30 Nov 2013, 4:16 pm

Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one."

Psalm 14:3 "There is none that doeth good, no, not one."

So, from where comes their justification? The knowledge that "straights" are no better than they are, in the eyes of God.



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30 Nov 2013, 4:48 pm

As a non-jew, I don't follow the Law of Moses. As an LDS(mormon), I was taught in sunday school and seminary, and institute that Jesus fulfilled the law. Although it's phrased in Matthew 5:17-18 that not one iota of the law goes away, the Law of Moses is considered a training wheel set of laws to prepare for the coming of Christ and no more. Christ has arrived, and the law is no longer necessary to prepare for his arrival because he's already there.

Also it should be remembered that the Law of Moses did not exist on Earth before the Golden Calf incident. There were rules and regulations, but not the strict preparatory law for the Israelite populace leaving Egypt.


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Wivil
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30 Nov 2013, 5:15 pm

(Fnord) Does "Mature" mean "In Total Agreement With You"? I hope not.
First, I appreciate you sharing your opinion. This post is not all about me or my individual opinion it is a place to discuss the controversy, no one must agree with me. When I say mature I just mean that I would very much like this to be a place were respect is shown to ALL commenters, including yourself. Sorry for any confusion I may have caused! :)
The goal of this post is to discuss the different sides of the controversy and maybe learn about each other in the process, not to try and prove my views on the subject. I am just adding my opinion to the discussion like I hope everyone else will. :)



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01 Dec 2013, 4:13 am

stardraigh wrote:
As a non-jew, I don't follow the Law of Moses. As an LDS(mormon), I was taught in Sunday school and seminary, and institute that Jesus fulfilled the law. Although it's phrased in Matthew 5:17-18 that not one iota of the law goes away...

Matthew, the Publican wrote:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

This means that Levitican Law is still valid, even after the Christ had come and gone. The "Fulfillment" part comes in when He became the pure sacrifice for the atonement of our sins.

So -- according to the Bible -- sexual immorality of any kind is still a sin, even though the Christ "paid" the penalty for it (as our proxy) with his blood; and "Straights", therefore, are no better than "gays" in that respect.

Freaky, huh?



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01 Dec 2013, 4:31 am

If Christ had said nothing of homosexuality, surely he must have been in full agreement about the stance on the subject at the time. Doesn't necessarily mean we should make the same conclusions out of it that modern fundamentalists do.



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01 Dec 2013, 8:05 am

redrobin62 wrote:
I've always wondered how gay Christians and Jews justify their homosexuality. It's spelled out very clearly in the Bible that it's an abomination. Theoretically, shouldn't a believer adhere to those principles and abstain from anything that is deemed an abomination? The conflict would drive me crazy.

.


Its spelled out even more clearly in the Bible what an abomination straight sex is when its outside of marriage, and when you consider the possible results of such as homosexual activity doesn't result in 4 and 5 year old illegitimate children trying to make themselves go blind in the Children's Home because their "Mummy's didn't want them", you can see why sex outside of marriage is just as much a sin, and yes, as a single hetro-sexual male, I have been driven crazy by the conflict and so have completely abandoned any notion that I will be "saved" due to any actions of my own and as the Mosiac Law required.
If I do find myself "saved", I will be able to give Jesus 100% credit for my salvation due to his mercy.

I wonder how many of these so called christians who condemn homosexuality are themselves engaging in straight sex outside of marriage or even looking at porn which also is a sin.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", Jesus once said.



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01 Dec 2013, 4:08 pm

I could be wrong, but I think the prohibition on sodomy in Leviticus was based on outlawing the practises of the neighbouring Canaanites, whose male priests had anal sex as a way of achieving spiritual ecstasy. If only they had been cannibals or paedophiles instead.



Wivil
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01 Dec 2013, 6:18 pm

Nambo wrote:
redrobin62 wrote:
I've always wondered how gay Christians and Jews justify their homosexuality. It's spelled out very clearly in the Bible that it's an abomination. Theoretically, shouldn't a believer adhere to those principles and abstain from anything that is deemed an abomination? The conflict would drive me crazy.

.


Its spelled out even more clearly in the Bible what an abomination straight sex is when its outside of marriage, and when you consider the possible results of such as homosexual activity doesn't result in 4 and 5 year old illegitimate children trying to make themselves go blind in the Children's Home because their "Mummy's didn't want them", you can see why sex outside of marriage is just as much a sin, and yes, as a single hetro-sexual male, I have been driven crazy by the conflict and so have completely abandoned any notion that I will be "saved" due to any actions of my own and as the Mosiac Law required.
If I do find myself "saved", I will be able to give Jesus 100% credit for my salvation due to his mercy.

I wonder how many of these so called christians who condemn homosexuality are themselves engaging in straight sex outside of marriage or even looking at porn which also is a sin.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", Jesus once said.



YES! THANK YOU! :hail: A certain person I know had sex before she was married(ALOT), had a kid before she was married, did drugs, etc., and she judges gay people because they sin against God or something. :shrug:
And I quote "God says that having sex with someone of the same gender is like having sex with an animal." end disgusting quote. :eew: This horrendous little comment was met with heartfelt agreement from others. A homophobe in it's purest form.



Last edited by Wivil on 02 Dec 2013, 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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01 Dec 2013, 8:35 pm

TheValk wrote:
If Christ had said nothing of homosexuality, surely he must have been in full agreement about the stance on the subject at the time. Doesn't necessarily mean we should make the same conclusions out of it that modern fundamentalists do.

Same for slavery ... subjugation of women as second-class citizens ... conquest by genocide ... those a re all Old-Testament values, too.



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01 Dec 2013, 10:45 pm

Fnord wrote:
stardraigh wrote:
As a non-jew, I don't follow the Law of Moses. As an LDS(mormon), I was taught in Sunday school and seminary, and institute that Jesus fulfilled the law. Although it's phrased in Matthew 5:17-18 that not one iota of the law goes away...

Matthew, the Publican wrote:
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

This means that Levitican Law is still valid, even after the Christ had come and gone. The "Fulfillment" part comes in when He became the pure sacrifice for the atonement of our sins.

So -- according to the Bible -- sexual immorality of any kind is still a sin, even though the Christ "paid" the penalty for it (as our proxy) with his blood; and "Straights", therefore, are no better than "gays" in that respect.

Freaky, huh?


But doesn't Leviciticus apply only to Hebrews/Israelites? It seems adressed to them, not the rest of the world. And I vaguely remember from Paul's (I think) Letters to the Goyim that non-Jewish Christians don't need to keep the Jewish laws.
But I don't know, wasn't brought up religious.