Metal - Extreme, Epic, or Expiremental

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Sweetleaf
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07 Sep 2012, 12:01 am

thewrll wrote:

I would agree that metalcore is a mix of metal and hardcore. It sounds a lot harder than the new genre post hardcore which has elements of hardcore and emo.

Yeah, I guess where a lot of people get a little ridiculous over it is when they disagree whether the metal influence makes it a genre of metal, a metal influenced genre of hardcore or if its simply a hybrid that doesn't really fit inside of either genre. Its not as simple as Thrash Metal which its pretty obvious to most people who follow the origins of genres is heavy metal with punk elements that still remains a metal genre.

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Ganondox
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07 Sep 2012, 1:15 am

Sweetleaf wrote:

I like all metal, but I simply cannot agree that metalcore is metal........if it was it wouldn't be called metalcore some of it is good and it certainly has metal influence but as far as I can tell the base genre certainly is not metal, at least it does not sound like it to me or people who agree with that opinion.

What exactly it is I am not sure.......I was under the impression the core genres branch off of hardcore punk, but then most people I've talked to over the internet at least who listen to hardcore punk say metalcore isn't exactly related. So maybe its a hybrid between elements of metal as well as hardcore punk not sure really. It just does not seem quite like thrash metal in which metal is the base genre and punk elements were added to create what is known as thrash metal vs. heavy metal.

Is it obvious I've spent a lot of time thinking about these things, and I don't really expect most people to care too much.

it's a form of Post-Hardcore. Emo is the only other major subgenre of Post-Hardcore.

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Gravechylde
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07 Sep 2012, 11:04 am

A few things I'd like to point out.
1. Nu-tmetal is a mislabeled form of harsher rock (not metal).
2. Industrial Meal isn't a genre on it's own, there are metal bands that incorporate Industrial influences into their music, such as Fear Factory, but they are still a death/Thrash mixture.
3. Alternative metal is not a real genre, and in my experience most of the bands labelled as alternative metal aren't actually metal, and the ones that are metal easily fit into an already existing genre.
4. I mostly agree with sweetleaf about metalcore, but there are some of these bands that are metal, Lamb of God for instance.
5. Here are the genres of metal with a couple examples
Black Metal (Immortal, Darkthrone)
Death metal (Bolt Thrower, Death)
Death/Doom Metal (My Dying Bride, Paradise Lost (their older stuff))
Doom Metal (Saint Vitus, Candlemass)
Drone (Sunn 0))), Earth)
Folk Metal (includes viking/pagan) (Ensiferum, Tyr)
Funeral Metal (Esoteric, Pantheist)
Gothic Metal (Epica, Type O Negative)
Heavy Metal (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest)
Power Metal (Blind Guardian, Rhapsody of Fire)
Progressive Metal (Avant-garde) (Spastic Ink, Dream Theater)
Sludge (Crowbar, Eyehategod)
Thrash Metal (early Metallica, Overkill)

A couple "on the fence" genres of metal
Stoner metal - to be honest almost every band labelled as this is either doom metal (Electric Wizard/Sleep) or sludge (Bongzilla/Yob)
Speed Metal - technically this is a real form of metal, but bands in this genre are almost always mixed with either Heavy Metal (Motorhead), Thrash Metal (Annihilator), or Power (Helloween)
grindcore/goregrind - most are within the realm of punk, but some have enough death metal in them to be metal (Carcass, Exhumed)

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Sweetleaf
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07 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm

Gravechylde wrote:

If there are grindcore/goregrind bands that have enough death metal in them to be metal, wouldn't they then be considered Death Metal rather than grindcore/goregrind? Or another possibility might be there are bands that play both death metal and grindcore/goregrind. But as far as I understand goregrind/grindcore is death metal influenced punk.....so in my mind once it crosses over into being more death metal than punk it would then be death metal...i would say punk influenced death metal but death metal comes from thrash metal which already is influenced by punk so to me it goes without saying.

Also I thought Industrial Metal was a genre.......take the band Deathstars for instance, sounds like metal with industrial influences. Though more goth metal with industrial influences and a lot of time goth metal is not quite as harsh as most forms. Kind of like how hair metal though I would not consider every band that was considered 'hair metal' in the 80s to be metal.....but there are a few like W.A.S.P for instance.

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Sweetleaf
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07 Sep 2012, 12:29 pm

Ganondox wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

it's a form of Post-Hardcore. Emo is the only other major subgenre of Post-Hardcore.

so metalcore is a form of post hardcore, along with emo or specifically emotive hardcore I think is the full genre name? If so that explains the similarities I hear between those genres...mainly the harsh vocals in both emo and metalcore sound very simular to me much of the time. As opposed to the more gutteral death metal sort of vocals.

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marshall
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07 Sep 2012, 2:35 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Ganondox wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

it's a form of Post-Hardcore. Emo is the only other major subgenre of Post-Hardcore.

My problem with "metalcore" from what I've heard of it is it's just bland. Most of it anyways. It has neither the virtuoso/theatrical elements that appeal to metal fans nor the raw energy and emotion that appeals to post-hardcore fans. It seems like standard pop music with a stylistic "heaviness" that's tacked on purely for effect. With true emotional hardcore music the screams at least somewhat match the content of the lyrics (City of Caterpiller for instance) and have a purpose.

Gravechylde
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07 Sep 2012, 2:35 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

Well, from what I understand about grind styles (Which is limited compared to other kinds of metal for me), grindcore is a form of punk and goregrind is like a halfway point between grindcore and death metal. I just listened to some songs from Deathstars, and I'd agree they are Gothic Metal with industrial/electronic influence. And yeah Hair/Glam metal is really just a name for the scene/trend surrounding those bands, since some are metal and some are rock.

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thewrll
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07 Sep 2012, 11:05 pm

What are the amazing Merzbow?

Ganondox
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08 Sep 2012, 12:46 am

thewrll wrote:

What are the amazing Merzbow?

Noise is not metal, it's noise. Some forms of Extreme Metal take influence from noise music, though Noise Music is more related to Punk than Metal.

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thewrll
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08 Sep 2012, 12:51 am

What is the closet noise band you know of to metal. Is drone metal to you extreme?

Ganondox
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08 Sep 2012, 2:17 am

thewrll wrote:

What is the closet noise band you know of to metal. Is drone metal to you extreme?

Yes, it's related to Doom Metal.

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thewrll
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08 Sep 2012, 2:24 am

Drone might be one of the genre's with a much smaller audience than other subgenre's.

Ganondox
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08 Sep 2012, 2:36 am

Ganondox wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

it's a form of Post-Hardcore. Emo is the only other major subgenre of Post-Hardcore.

Oops, I forgot about Grindcore and Math Rock, they are also both technically styles of Post-Hardcore. The main style of Post-Hardcore is closest to Emo, but Metalcore is probably best described as a fusion of Post-Hardcore and Groove Metal.

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LexingtonDeville
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08 Sep 2012, 4:28 pm

Ganondox wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

it's a form of Post-Hardcore. Emo is the only other major subgenre of Post-Hardcore.

I always thought of Grindcore as part of the "extreme metal" family tree.

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thewrll
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08 Sep 2012, 7:25 pm

I don't know. The metalhead when he hosted part of the punk show, what he played was grindcore, so it could be a mixture.

Ganondox
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09 Sep 2012, 12:20 am

LexingtonDeville wrote:

Ganondox wrote:

Sweetleaf wrote:

it's a form of Post-Hardcore. Emo is the only other major subgenre of Post-Hardcore.

I always thought of Grindcore as part of the "extreme metal" family tree.

Grindcore is essentially Death Punk, the punk version of Death Metal. It has gotten more metal over time as it mixed with Death Metal to form Deathgrind. Anyway it's only Post-Hardcore in the sense that it is derived from Hardcore, most bands that identify as being Post-Hardcore are somewhere between Emo and Metalcore.

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