Calling all Goths and Darksiders

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Just stipulating that being goth does not require adopting a stereotypical goth look. As gothic is a subculture it is more and mainly about mentality, shared interests and shared viewpoints. So someone who understands the ideologies common to gothness but dresses in yellow shirts and pink trousers can be a more true goth than a teen dressing in black and wearing fishnet shirts but who have no clue about what gothic is really about.

The problem, as with all subcultures, is that even in the gothscene itself, there is debate and no general opinion or definition about what gothic really means or what/who really classifies as gothic. So there are plenty of borderline goths, and what is gothic and whats not often depends on someones interpretation of the subculture. But definitely the way you dress is not a decisive factor, on the contrary. To wear "gothic fashion" does not mean you are goth, to not wear "typically goth clothing" does not mean you cannot be part of the subculture. Gothic as it was originally intended is a subculture that does not rate appearance as very important, so young teens who dress in a goth style just to fit in ironically do exactly the opposite of what gothic is really about (but then, as I said, a large part of the young people frequenting goth clubs have no clue what gothic is really about... for them it is a music style and a fashion, so basically that says it all about how little they have in common with the original spirit of gothic in the old days).

It is because of the reasons described above that I prefer going to goth nights that attract an older audience. People who dont take it so damn seriously but who do know what the subculture was really about. Clubs that attract mainly young people are full of kids who dont even know what gothic really means but meanwhile fish for the gothic tag just by the way they dress. Typically those are the sort of people who would think Marilyn Manson, NIN, Within Temptation and HIM are gothic, resulting in the consequence that the clubs they go to cater themselves as gothic pubs but meanwhile play more IBM, metal and industrial than real gothic music. The word gothic has now unfortunately/ironically been linked to everything the real subculture was NOT about: appearance, fashion, music. The original subculture did have its own music as part of it, but it was not at all about how you dressed or about conforming to a certain fashion.

Purely music wise it has to be noted that pure gothic music is very very rare and gone completely underground again. Today many bands in the metal, industrial and wave style like to incorporate gothic elements in either their act and/or their music. Marilyn Manson, Within Temptation, Nightwish, ... Those are all metal bands and none of them is gothic by any means, no matter how many gothic elements they try to use in their acts or music. This is what gothic music has become nowadays: mainly a sort of small addition to music in other styles (for example a few gothic samples or sounds added to a metal song). Gothic music in its pure form has become extremely rare, and unfortunately while the style is not dead it has become comatose. The few bands who do stick to pure gothic music, have little or no fame and operate on very local basis and without ever reaching the big audiences.

I'm very much involved with the local goth/industrial scene, but I really cannot describe myself as having much of an affinity with the 'dark' aesthetic. I vastly prefer industrial and electronica to the more traditional goth music played and tend to dress in a fairly colourful fashion, usually with a lot of silver and neon. For me the goth/industrial scene is far more appealing because people tend to accept eccentric and unusual dress-senses and tastes, than for any sort of preconditioned 'dark' aesthetic.

how does Kraftwerk lead to industrial music? Wouldn't Gabber be closer to industrial, that and the other hardstyle types?

Goth/Darkwave is OK by me. --Currently listening to a Goth/Darkwave show on MIT's college station.

No, not really. Bands like Kraftwerk were the precursors to the very first industrial bands, such as Throbbing Gristle, way back in the mid 70s. There are many modern variants of industrial that have taken heavy influence from the harder dance genres, such as powernoise, techno-body-music, aggrotech and so on, but industrial's history goes back about 20 years before gabber existed, and actually precursed dance music altogether.

At the very least I don't see how the music of Second Annual Report had any tangible Kraftwerk influence. As far as I'm aware avant-garde rock bands like The Velvet Underground, Fifty Foot Hose, and a bunch of krautrock bands (unlikely to include Kraftwerk themselves) were the only influences TG ever admitted to. That said, some later albums from the Neue Deutsche Welle camp that were influential on 80s industrial might have owed something to them.

I didn't say Kraftwerk were an influence in Throbbing Gristle's music, but at the time there was a definite upsurge of bands, all very heavily influenced by the Krautrock movement, who were all experimenting with various primitive forms of synthesis and sampling, and who all shared a very apparent love for industrial and futurist aesthetics. Although the two bands went down very separate routes, they most definitely draw from similar influences.

I've got a hat just like The Hitcher's at home, lolol.
"D'ya enjoy that boy? Getting cockney urine all over your face? That was a bad time for you, weren't it boy?"

thank you.

I agree - I always wear black and I'm a few years older than you (I just have to choose carefully). I'm more 'Black Metal' or plain ol' Heavy Metal, and into some Dark Alternative. Aspies prefer black because it's a color they can hide their bodies successfully in. My son (also Aspie) always wear black pants or dark blue pants (jeans) with a long. baggy black hoodie sweatshirt. He looks like a monk in it and will wear it even in 100 degree weather if I let him get away with it. In high school I always wore black dresses with thigh-high black leather boots. I didn't wear black garments to 'hide,' but more to look intimidating. I didn't feel accepted by people in school so I figured I'd scare them away. It usually worked.

Your post reminded me of this goth guy I knew in college. He got so stoned one day that he decided to pierce his ears with an office stapler. I think he was schizoid, though, not aspie, so I doubt if Gothness is genetic.

Ah, those were the days...

Gothness genetic? Nah, it is a subculture, you decide to immerse in it or not. I always have a laugh at those saying that you are born a goth. Did those people pop out of their mothers uterus while singing "Bela Lugosis Dead" or so? Some people just take it so damn serious... It is a movement, a subculture, call it a feeling maybe to its maximum extent but that is about it.

I'd call myself an ex-Goth. I identified with it a lot as a teenager, and was a goth/industrial DJ for several years (even spun at Convergence 4), but sort of "grew out of it" around the time I turned 18 or 19. The cheesier aspects associated with it, like vampires, never really appealed to me and the idea of identifying myself as part of a subculture just seemed sad and unnecessary. Beyond that, I had mostly been drawn in by the music, so when my tastes diverged in other directions and wearing makeup and vinyl pants felt stupid, it didn't make sense to be part of something that no longer reflected any of my interests or tastes.

These days, I wear dark pants, a t-shirt, and combat boots, maybe a hoodie or heavy coat on cold days, but that's about the extent of it, and I probably look more like a rivethead. Musically, I listen to everything from rhythmic noise and power electronics to dubstep and electro, and about the closest I get to goth rock anymore is Joy Division or Swans.

People usually associate me with being gay (wrong !) or being goth (somewhat right) when seeing my appearance and especially make up. I guess I do look a bit goth, but I dont do it for the sake of it, I just like this and it happens to be labelled goth. The days I would dress up for the goth sake of it, are over, I ditched most of those fashion stuff when I got a bit older and the make up and black hairdo are what remains, I sticked to those not for the gothic tag but for the simple fact of dressing the way I like it without looking at labels or tags.

I consider myself a goth, definitely. ^__^ I'm not your typical cliche one, though. I don't like Bauhaus or any of the traditional goth rock, really, aside from some songs by The Cure. And I don't wear eyeliner since I can't stand make up. And I don't smoke like most goths do, or like BDSM like most goths do.

But I do very much identify with the subculture. I love lots of music that gets associated with the subculture and gets played in gothic/industrial clubs, am totally in love with the visual style and find it hard to appreciate many non-gothic visuals, and I wear pretty gothic clothes most of the time, like a corset vest. I'm also obsessed with a lot of gothic things in general, like vampires and succubi and what not. And, like most goths, I have a general dislike for religion, am usually depressed, unintentionally creep people out, and have some things about me that most "normies" would think are kinda...twisted.

In some ways I'm like those hopelessly stereotypical goths that the traditional goths hate. I loooove Tim Burton and The Nightmare Before Christmas, I love Neil Gaiman and JTHM (Johnny the Homicidal Maniac), I love Marilyn Manson and Evanescence and NIN and all those bands that AREN'T actually gothic but get CALLED gothic by the media...not that I don't also love stuff like Blutengel or Lacrimosa that actually IS gothic even though it doesn't sound like the traditional goth rock.

Calling Blutengel gothic is a borderline case, but I do like them a lot (and Constance Rudert is hot I tell you! )

Depressed like most goths? Odd... The goth circles I go to contain very very few depressed people, most of them have a very hedonistic lifestyle or are quiet introvert people who however appear to be full of lust for life once you get to know them. I have not often met goths who were really depressed or at least not many who were open about it.

The link between asperger and goth. Is probably more because of the social aspect than that its goth.
When everyone seems defferent from the mainstream its easier to fit in.