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fiddlerpianist
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22 Jun 2009, 7:54 am

Snobbery is one of the reasons I stopped playing classical music. The attitude was just so present everywhere you went, from musicians to enthusiasts. I hate the notion of having to dress up to go see concerts, sit in your seat, sit quietly, not tap your feet when you find something exciting, not clap between movements, and politely applaud at the end. Music is too moving to keep quiet, or at least it should be.

I wish I had been there for the Stravinsky riot!


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22 Jun 2009, 8:34 am

It's funny that much of what people are snobby about (classical music/Shakespeare) were the rock and roll of their day.



fiddlerpianist
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22 Jun 2009, 9:28 am

Aimless wrote:
It's funny that much of what people are snobby about (classical music/Shakespeare) were the rock and roll of their day.

I think the moment you institutionalize something, you suck the soul right out of it.


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zeichner
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22 Jun 2009, 10:47 am

I love the way Emilie Autumn crosses the line. She records & performs both classical & (what she terms) Victorianindustrial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emilie_Autumn

There's nothing snobby about her! :)


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22 Jun 2009, 5:00 pm

fiddlerpianist wrote

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I think the moment you institutionalize something, you suck the soul right out of it.



I think the same thing about looking at art in a gallery or museum. It loses something.



Sand
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22 Jun 2009, 9:33 pm

Aimless wrote:
fiddlerpianist wrote
Quote:
I think the moment you institutionalize something, you suck the soul right out of it.



I think the same thing about looking at art in a gallery or museum. It loses something.


The institutional act of placing something in a gallery or museum gives it some quality of acceptance in society which is frequently rather puzzling. When viewing such "institutional" placement I am frequently in a quandary as to whether there is some quality I miss and must revise my understanding of art or whether it is just a piece of artistic scam with no real value other than obvious shock to my general concept of what comprises art.



MJE
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26 Jun 2009, 1:17 pm

fiddlerpianist wrote:
Snobbery is one of the reasons I stopped playing classical music. The attitude was just so present everywhere you went, from musicians to enthusiasts. I hate the notion of having to dress up to go see concerts, sit in your seat, sit quietly, not tap your feet when you find something exciting, not clap between movements, and politely applaud at the end. Music is too moving to keep quiet, or at least it should be.

     I don't see that this is about snobbery; rather, it's about consideration for those nearby, who also want to listen to the music; and if someone wants to tap, fidget, or whatever as the mood takes them, it is going to distract others from listening to the music. It's really not a lot different from people inconsiderately talking, rustling food wrappers, and so on at the cinema.
     I agree with you about the dressing up, though, and I am indifferent about whether people clap at the end, although I wish they would wait for the final note to completely die away, which they don't always. I sometimes suspect that the vigour with which some people clap and shout "Bravo" is a kind of snobbery, where they are wanting to show others in the audience how much they appreciate the subtleties of the music.
     Clapping between movements is not something I like. A composer conceives a multi-movement work as a whole, and there is, if not a thematic link between the movements, at least a more subtle link of mood, atmosphere, or construction - and clapping between the movements can break the spell the music creates from movement to movement.
     I don't deny some people are snobbish about attending classical concerts; but the etiquette of concert-going is not just about snobbery, but consideration for your fellow concert attenders. I would see it as only your loss if you have withdrawn from classical music simply because you see this as snobbery, which I do not like any more than you do.

fiddlerpianist wrote:
I wish I had been there for the Stravinsky riot!

     It might have been an interesting spectacle in itself; but I'm sure it would not have been a good occasion to appreciate Stravinsky's music.

Regards, Michael.



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26 Jun 2009, 8:04 pm

I remenber seen videos of a classical concert in Great Britain. The public was acting like it was a rock concert 8) They did seem to enjoy it more than north-americans.



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26 Jun 2009, 8:11 pm

any musical form has their share of 'snobs' who relish the relatively unknown acts or styles, and get so ticked off once their 'personal' acts are 'discovered' (it's called 'selling out', or cashing in, depending which side of the contract you're on...;)

I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused...;)



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06 Jul 2009, 9:51 am

How in the world is waiting to applaud classified as snobbery?

I've mentioned this post to several of my mates and their opinion is that this is indicative of the younger generation, and that we will see funding for the arts disappear in our lifetime. Young people have no understanding that their attention spans are being shortened to that of your average gnat. Donate money to snob??? The younger set is much too busy spending all their money on themselves .....


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06 Jul 2009, 10:16 am

i think "snobs" are inferior. they are tawdry and banal, and they rely on naught but predefined status to utter their rantings.
they are a class underneath me and i refuse to even consider their plights.
snobs are pathetic little barnacles that must be scraped from the hulls of undeserved "success" (like inheritances etc)






what i said above was an attempt at an "irony". people that are "fed up" with snobbery are "snobbery" snobs. everyone is a "snob" as defined by their scorn for the area of their least admiration.


the letters "s" "n" "o" "b" are contained within the word "baboons".

i guess that is irrelevant however, (but it is something my tiny mind spilled over the end of my post).

snobs are people who believe they have reached a pinnacle that can not be surpassed, and they are not interested to talk with anyone they calculate to be below them.

that relieves them from my company.



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07 Jul 2009, 3:34 am

I get annoyed at the attitude that sitting quietly and enjoying the music amounts to "snobbery". If I go to a concert, I'm there for the purpose of listening to music, not to expose the entire audience to my emotional reactions to the music, whether they want to be exposed to them or not.

MJE: Good post.


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Michjo
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07 Jul 2009, 4:21 am

I think there is a place for snobbery, especially in a musical context. Just as long as there are places that aren't snobby, i'm happy.



MJE
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07 Jul 2009, 8:00 am

     I'm getting the feeling that this thread is wandering all over the place, and I'm not quite sure of the main point behind it. I suspect this is because different posters have a different notion of what snobbery is. Some seem to think snobbery is simply the ability to enjoy areas of art or knowledge that are beyond the appreciation or interest of the person who considers it snobbery (a notion I would strongly deny), whereas others seem to regard snobbery as using one's knowledge or appreciation of specialized areas as a platform for exhibiting their superiority over those who don't share the appreciation or interest (which is what I would define snobbery as).
     But I am puzzled as to why so many people here are getting so agitated about snobbery in the arts or music. I mean, there are dozens of things about humanity one could dislike, and snobbery, a slightly sad but probably mostly harmless fault, would seem to be one of the lesser vices humanity is subject to - just not worth getting upset over.
     Perhaps of much more concern are greed, the quest for power, the kind of bigotry in religion or politics or social outlook which is determined to force itself - legislatively if necessary, or even at the point of a gun in some parts of the world - on everyone else, whether they want it or not - people who oppose social justice, who oppose progress in biological science, who want to force a religious agenda (creationism for example) in schools.
     Worry about those narrow-minded, bigoted people, especially in politics (where they have real power), who play upon the prejudices of the populace and promote intolerance against minority groups (gay people, Muslims, and many other groups) for their own agenda - who lobby for or pass repressive laws which hold back human welfare or progress in biological areas of science which may one day cure horrible diseases. By comparison, people who are snobbish at concerts because they must show their superiority of appreciation are just not worth giving a moment's thought to.
     I am at a loss to understand the poster's attitude who appeared to have given up classical music because they thought other people were being snobbish about it. That is giving those others huge power over one's personal life - quite needlessly.

Regards, Michael.



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07 Jul 2009, 8:52 am

Who_Am_I wrote:
I get annoyed at the attitude that sitting quietly and enjoying the music amounts to "snobbery". If I go to a concert, I'm there for the purpose of listening to music, not to expose the entire audience to my emotional reactions to the music, whether they want to be exposed to them or not.

MJE: Good post.


Excellent posts Prof and MJE.



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07 Jul 2009, 11:59 am

fiddlerpianist wrote:
Snobbery is one of the reasons I stopped playing classical music. The attitude was just so present everywhere you went, from musicians to enthusiasts. I hate the notion of having to dress up to go see concerts, sit in your seat, sit quietly, not tap your feet when you find something exciting, not clap between movements, and politely applaud at the end. Music is too moving to keep quiet, or at least it should be.


Have you seen André Rieu's concerts? He encourages audience members to dance in the front, and stand up and clap, and even has them participate in the concert itself!


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