How important is researching facts when it comes to fiction?

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ironpony
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22 Mar 2020, 11:22 am

When I try writing fictional screenplays, and then have beta readers give me their comments, they say I didn't do my research into the subject matter or the facts, but the problem with keeping things realistic and factual though, is that it doesn't make for entertaining fiction.

For example, in the movie Cell 211 (2009):

SPOILER FROM MOVIE

It's a hostage negotiation thriller, and the movie ends with the hostage negotiator, running out of time, tells the leader of the terrorists, that he will be given a Presidential pardon, if he kills his fellow hostage takers, and saves the hostages.   Now in the real world, no hostage negotiator is going to do this, cause of course that just puts the hostages lives at risk more.

But it makes for entertaining drama, and the fact that they didn't follow realism, made it more dramatic since in reality, hostage negotiation is set up, for the least dramatic outcome.

Or how in the movie Blow Out (1981):

SPOILER

The movie is about a movie sound recordist, who while recording sounds for movies, accidentally records a political assassination, and then becomes in danger after.  Now I know from recording sound effects for my own movie projects, that they really took artistic license with stretching the physics of what can be done with recording sound, in order for the story to take certain dramatic turns.  But that's okay.  It's not realistic but I don't care.  It's still entertaining.

So therefore, how important is sticking to the facts therefore, and if a reader tells you, you have to, do you really?



Sweetleaf
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22 Mar 2020, 11:36 am

It probably depends on the story, but yeah things happen in movies that don't usually happen IRL, but still seems to be better if they have their facts straight as to how the setting would look. Like for instance if someone was making a movie about the military...they might want to research the different ranks, how military members address each other and perhaps what different weapons and equipment are referred to just so the setting is convincing. Then from there you could have space aliens invade and that is the threat the military has to deal with if you wanted.

I mean I think generally if you aren't totally knowledgeable about a setting you want to use in a story, may be a good idea to learn more about the things that make that setting so your reader can picture what you're talking about. But I don't think most people would say you haven't done your research if the events in the story are just more far fetched.

Do you have any examples of what things people have complained, you didn't use the facts for?


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22 Mar 2020, 11:50 am

ironpony wrote:
How important is researching facts when it comes to fiction?
It depends on the genre and the target audience.

Historic Fiction: While the events and dialog are made up, you must have a thorough understanding of the technology of the times, the ways of speech, the costuming, and real-life places and events of the time.

Police Procedural: A good grounding in criminal law (and how it differs from civil law) and forensic science are essential.

Romantic Fantasy: Unless you are a woman, do not assume what most women think. Believe it or not, in stories written by women, they are not obsessed with the appearances of their bodies, but more with what is going on around them. If you are a man, write from a man's perspective, and from your personal experiences.

Science-Fiction: "Hard" science-fiction adheres strictly to know physical principles and reasonable extrapolations thereof. Any faster-than-light activity turns the story "soft" as it veers toward fantasy.

Space-Opera: If you need a gadget, then invent one, and to Hell with scientific principles.

In all cases, look up the expected tropes from your specific genre -- you cannot escape them, but it is a good idea to use them properly unless you are writing parody stories.


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22 Mar 2020, 12:00 pm

Yes, you need enough reality to make it plausable, but not too much that it becomes a factual movie.

When I watch films involving trains, there are many big mistakes which just would not happen in real life under almost any circumstances, and I am often told off for pointing these out! But I still enjoy the films.
Some films just get it right on all accounts.

But regardless, as certain knowledge may take a lifetime to learn, and film writers/ film makers do not have such knowledge to fall back on, as they have enough of a job just writing or making films, we can give them a little leyway here. After all. If we are too critical we have no films.

So while it is good to observe real life operations of how things work so you can make it look convincing, and I will say to do this research and enjoy doing it (!), you don't need to worry too much about it. After all. Films are rarely direct copies of real life.


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ironpony
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22 Mar 2020, 12:25 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
It probably depends on the story, but yeah things happen in movies that don't usually happen IRL, but still seems to be better if they have their facts straight as to how the setting would look. Like for instance if someone was making a movie about the military...they might want to research the different ranks, how military members address each other and perhaps what different weapons and equipment are referred to just so the setting is convincing. Then from there you could have space aliens invade and that is the threat the military has to deal with if you wanted.

I mean I think generally if you aren't totally knowledgeable about a setting you want to use in a story, may be a good idea to learn more about the things that make that setting so your reader can picture what you're talking about. But I don't think most people would say you haven't done your research if the events in the story are just more far fetched.

Do you have any examples of what things people have complained, you didn't use the facts for?


Oh well, I was told that my story is not realistic enough and I didn't do the research when it comes to the premise.
I've been told that my story is too comic-bookish and not realistic enough, but it's suppose to be I think.

I feel, I have to give a CONTENT WARNING:

It's about a group of rapists that are going around committing crimes, and the police's efforts to catch them, but I was told that it's too far fetched that they wouldn't get caught a lot sooner, or how they operate, cause they are so smart to give the police a run for their money as they put it.

That they are too smart to the point comic-bookish. But I think this is intentional and comic book-ish should not be an insult. Plus they have to be a challenge for the hero, all the way up until the climax.

Is there anything I can do to let the reader know that it's suppose to be this way, and not have them assume the are reading a low key realistic story?



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22 Mar 2020, 12:38 pm

Oh. THAT story.

Well, yes.

Simply make up a comic book type world as the setting for your story. Maybe a future dystopia. Or just a fictionalized version of anytown USA. Like "Gotham City" is a comic book version of New York.

Something like "Sin City".



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22 Mar 2020, 1:12 pm

Oh okay, well they said it was the villains behavior that was too unrealistic, but would the setting help behavior though? Because I thought of a nameless city before, but I was also told that if I am going to take on this type of premise should be set in a real city though, unless that's not true?



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22 Mar 2020, 2:38 pm

Depends on the element, depends on the context.

Relevant for your idea, when I was younger I would often mess around with recording vocals with different effects on them and found that if I had a guitar distortion pedal after the mic it would often cause conversations and other noises in the house to get picked up even if they were too soft to hear while I was recording.


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ironpony
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22 Mar 2020, 3:05 pm

Oh okay. Are you referring the points I made about the movie Blow Out?



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22 Mar 2020, 3:15 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh okay. Are you referring the points I made about the movie Blow Out?


Yeah, it's not entirely implausible.


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ironpony
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22 Mar 2020, 3:22 pm

Well in Blow Out, there is a scene where a guy records a frog with a shotgun mic from very far away. I don't think a shotgun mic can pick up a frog, from that distance at least no kind that I heard of.

But also in the movie, when the main character wires a woman for sound he turns adjust the levels to her normal speaking voice, since he is going to record a conversation she has. Then shortly later on, he records her screaming at the top of her lungs and the recording is perfect, and he didn't have to adjust the levels at all. Her scream would be completely blown out, no pun intended, and not recorded at all.

Also, the conversation that he recorded with her was in a parade with fireworks. But then when he plays the recording back later, there is no loud parade with fire works in the background, and the recording is clear. How can a mic block out a whole parade setting?



naturalplastic
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22 Mar 2020, 3:33 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well in Blow Out, there is a scene where a guy records a frog with a shotgun mic from very far away. I don't think a shotgun mic can pick up a frog, from that distance at least no kind that I heard of.

But also in the movie, when the main character wires a woman for sound he turns adjust the levels to her normal speaking voice, since he is going to record a conversation she has. Then shortly later on, he records her screaming at the top of her lungs and the recording is perfect, and he didn't have to adjust the levels at all. Her scream would be completely blown out, no pun intended, and not recorded at all.

Also, the conversation that he recorded with her was in a parade with fireworks. But then when he plays the recording back later, there is no loud parade with fire works in the background, and the recording is clear. How can a mic block out a whole parade setting?


In theory it could be done. You would need two mics. One pointed at the parade, and the other pointed at the person you're conversing with.

Both feed into the same device (could even be an old analog device, or it could be digital), and the device takes in the sound from the parade mic and notches it out of the sound coming from the person's mic leaving you with a track of the person speaking with the parade noise notched out.



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22 Mar 2020, 3:46 pm

the intricasies of good writing.... if your facts are real but based of new and not well known technologies.. and their applications .And the storyline includes what might possibly be potential real life interactions.
And or possible outcomes of these interactions that are plausible based on what you have presented in the storyline thus far. . Am thinking you might hold readers interest more. just my humble opinion.


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ironpony
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22 Mar 2020, 4:46 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
ironpony wrote:
Well in Blow Out, there is a scene where a guy records a frog with a shotgun mic from very far away. I don't think a shotgun mic can pick up a frog, from that distance at least no kind that I heard of.

But also in the movie, when the main character wires a woman for sound he turns adjust the levels to her normal speaking voice, since he is going to record a conversation she has. Then shortly later on, he records her screaming at the top of her lungs and the recording is perfect, and he didn't have to adjust the levels at all. Her scream would be completely blown out, no pun intended, and not recorded at all.

Also, the conversation that he recorded with her was in a parade with fireworks. But then when he plays the recording back later, there is no loud parade with fire works in the background, and the recording is clear. How can a mic block out a whole parade setting?




In theory it could be done. You would need two mics. One pointed at the parade, and the other pointed at the person you're conversing with.

Both feed into the same device (could even be an old analog device, or it could be digital), and the device takes in the sound from the parade mic and notches it out of the sound coming from the person's mic leaving you with a track of the person speaking with the parade noise notched out.


Oh but they didn't do it this way though, so it was still a stretch in the movie of course and not realistic I felt :).



ironpony
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22 Mar 2020, 7:41 pm

Jakki wrote:
the intricasies of good writing.... if your facts are real but based of new and not well known technologies.. and their applications .And the storyline includes what might possibly be potential real life interactions.
And or possible outcomes of these interactions that are plausible based on what you have presented in the storyline thus far. . Am thinking you might hold readers interest more. just my humble opinion.


Oh okay, well I didn't base my story completely on psychological fact, but one psychologist I asked said he believe it could happen as he said he has seen stranger things.

However, is my premise too silly perhaps?



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22 Mar 2020, 9:04 pm

SILLY ? wonders as to the underlying concept of what your plot goal might be.. literary license is a fact not just a thought. Credibility of ideas can be used effectively to possibly enhance , a mysterious situation .. intermixed with facts of the storyline.
Just wild idea ... offered here. a note from the famous scifi writer Phillip K Dick .. huge credible plot twists lend entertainment quality to most any sci fi writings , i think .. Lead your reader to a credible and serious logical conclusion, then repurpose your facts in the storyline to a completely different and incredible but plausible conclusion. With a yet different realistic storyline direction . Just becareful not to lose your readers interest in the process. ( Sometimes interesting technology can fill that gap). {just a thought.}.


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