If you want a date, cut the inferiority complex

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Besides the very forward "I think you're cute", the other issue with your statement is that you say "I'm going to talk with you". This insinuates that you are going to crowd the other person's attention, however subtle it may seem. Maybe they've genuinely got plans to do something else.

I can see what you mean about being forward sometimes helping, because it establishes off the mark that you're interested. I know a few people probably without AS who seem to get dates despite being very forward in their courtship. It's certainly not how it works with a lot of people, though. For starters I'd be wary if a girl was that forward to me off the bat, though partly because I wouldn't believe it and would be suspicious of an ulterior motive.

Yeah you have to practice it a lot before it becomes congruent. If u don't fully believe you should be saying it, they can sense that, and they'll feel uncertain as well. But I don't really care if they respond to it, there are plenty of other fish in the sea.

That sounds like antisocial personality disorder (i.e., sociopathy or psychopathy in its most severe forms).

Makuranososhi,

Dully noted, there is a learning curve, however that learning curve takes a LONG time to kick in for girls. Despite my angry tone, I have matured far beyond my rather immature and impulsive peers. Thus I am alienated from them. I resent girls, I won't lie, and don't I have reason to? Don't the majority of girls go for overly confident guy or guys that tend to be jerks? It might be cliche', but it is true. They f**k over perfectly nice guys with their pettiness and superficiality, nice guys who are honorable and friendly. Same could be said for nice guys as well, they often go after attractive looking girls and leave the average looking gals behind. But even so, my point is valid.

Seeing girls being emotionally hurt because they foolishly chose a overly confident guy or a jerk type guy via cheating or breakups may seem like something not to take pleasure in. However, I liken it to watching a movie where the bad guy does awful things and at the end of the movie, the hero gets back at the bad guy and justice is served. Makes you feel that justice has been served.

In the same manner, I consider nice guys who are rejected because they are nice and maybe not the best looking as the victims. Although it isn't a crime for a girl to reject a guy because of this, I consider it a severe lapse of judgement, and it may be considered an offense to the nice guy. Therefore, it is just that if a girl dates an overly confident guy or a jerk that she suffers the probable consequences of her actions, typically cheating or break ups. This is what I consider "justice", the fact that although the nice guy is spurned, it is alright in the end because the girl pays for her foolish action.

Only the mind of a severely rejected 21 year old who has been single all his life could come up with such an idea, right? When you're a nice guy, and girls don't give you the time of day, you lose your objectivity and either become depressed or angry. I was depressed, and now I have become angry. One need's justification and a sense of karma/retribution for the actions of other.

Then you are more than likely asking for trouble. But your life, not mine.

While it might take awhile, it's no longer for most women than it is for most men. In my observation, it starts to kick in after one turns thirty - just personal experience. I don't know that you have reason to resent women. Might you hurt from what has happened to you in the past? Yes. Do your fears of future rejection affect you? Yes. But to resent women? I don't think so. You're staining all for the sins of the few, as it were. From high school through my twenties, the level of superficiality was astonishing - and I still know many that I went to school with or met along the way that still behave that way... one ex is still trying to meet her parents expectations of who she should be with at the age of 31. I don't get it. It takes experience for people to learn what they want, which is one of the reasons that I find the requirement of many others on here that they not have much dating experience or intimacy to be a very negative qualifier for them. When we start dating, we have ideas of what we want; often, this comes from our own family, those in our community, and other forms of exposure. I don't think the majority go for the overconfident jerks through necessity - rather, it's like trying on a shirt and realizing it doesn't fit. Choosing to date one person over another is -not- f***ing the person not dated over in my opinion, I'm afraid. There is no obligation, no guarantee.

Quick aside: for the epitome of being an arse in cinema, let me suggest 'In The Company of Men' with Aaron Eckhart... talking about manipulative and deceitful.

You're executing the same form of judgment on the female gender as you're accusing them of by writing them all off as having poor judgment. Let me ask you this - would you want to date someone who presupposed that you had poor judgment? Just a thought.

There is no 'justice' in life, or in love. It's an arbitrary human concept. Balance, on the other hand, does have a foundation in reality. But you are very right - we all suffer the consequences of our actions.

You've been depressed, you've been angry. You can choose again to be something else entirely, such as hopeful. How you feel isn't wrong, but staying there is denying yourself - no one else. Life isn't an equation, despite our innate tendency to try and reduce it to such base components.


M.

I'd like to add something here that may put a slightly different spin on things.

Some of the judgment on women being made here is being taken to mean that all women, or at least enough to make no odds, are of the sort that have brought us here. That's not true. What is true, however, is a near complete lack of ability to discern the difference. Knowing that there are good women out there doesn't help much when you seem to get nothing but scrapes off of the rough while you search for the diamonds. Eventually, you're going to start saying, "You know what? Screw diamonds. Diamonds suck. We don't need no stinkin' diamonds."

-Frank

Fair enough, Frank - all I can say is when you quit looking, then you're not going to find that diamond.


M.

Don't worry about it, Time, you'll find Mr. Right. Well, maybe...

Maybe this can all be chalked up to the stereotyped faux pas of AS, but I want to try to explain why this...



...may be a bad idea for a pick up line.

Depending on the delivery, and who's delivering it, a line like that is going to illicit any number of responses to me. THe first thing that comes to mind is I'd laugh. Hard. I would probably think it was a joke, and even if I didn't, I'd find it very funny because it's so detached in its wording, robotic and rehearsed. Now, I have nothing against the stiffness some people with AS have in a social situation, but I'd still likely find it funny.

Unless...

Unless you're an intimidating type, and come on particularly strong with body language, getting too close, having bad hygiene, or acting otherwise suspicious. But since I doubt anyone with AS would act truly suspicious, I think I'd just get very uncomfortable if I was told this, and continue to make conversation until I found a way out and away.

Or, if the conversation did happen to go well, and I was single, I might carefully proceed, but that totally depends as well, and I'm a sucker for the odd people in this world. In that case, it's a good conversation starter. Still, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, in case you deliver it in some off-putting way. Most women are pretty freaked out by guys, and with goddamn good reason. I've had too many creeps approach me, it becomes difficult and pointless to try to weed them all out after a while.



I 'hate' society, too. And I'm not a p****, can protect myself and others to the best of my physical ability, and I don't give a f**k what other people think of me, for the most part. I'm also capable of manipulation and deceit, I'm impulsive, irritable, and aggressive.

I'm definitely not any sort of psychopath, however, I love my family more than life itself sometimes, and I would love for society to change what I hate about it. Hating society doesn't mean I hate people, or want to use them or have them hurt. It kills me to watch suffering.

Sometimes you just can't apply people to a set of rules, or lists of traits. And Time's desires are actually pretty realistic. Plus, this society is pretty much ass, we're all miserable.

Honestly I don't think is that easy, and I think it would be very probable and understandable that a woman could feel uncomfortable by a stranger saying "you're cute" when talking for the first time, likely they would think a man going like that is just looking for casual sex, although some women might go for it, even thinking if that's the case, and probably the guy is looking for something serious.

I really don't know how this works, and perhaps I never will, but, I doubt this is something to think to be possitive is going to work, and a part from a woman feeling uncomfortable, the guy, aspie guy in this case would feel frustrated.


I would say most people judge by appeareance, and I mean the apperance of the action, if someone looks convincing, wether he is being honest or not, this may sound somehow pessimistic to some, but I think it is how it works, and if the guy turns out to be actually honest, it is a good thing.


In that case, that would mean that you already know her, to decide wether you want to date her or not, and having knowing her at first, the issue I suppose, if I'm not mistaken, it is about starting to know a girl who you never talked to and come up with something strongly like that?


There is a problem with that for some who see it with a different light, which I'm not really sure about this practicing thing, I mean, practicing with who? some women don't like the idea of being one who takes part on a guy's training, without their consent, to put it on that perspective. Not to mention to be tiresome.

Just something to consider, greenblue... we are each part of the experience of all those we encounter, and experience is the root of learning - it is practice, for lack of a better word. So by interacting, there is implied consent... you imply that this is some formal training regimen, when it is merely part of the trial and error process that is life. While I can see a glimmer of where you are coming from, it is so extreme a form of manipulation as opposed to the simple process of asking someone out on a date that you're at least nominally interested in that there isn't any comparison I can really draw.


M.

Very intuitive of you, and you are correct, all of the above. Resent them, yes, I do. Like I said, in anger and resentment, objectivity is lost. It is extremely diffucult to remain objective and hopeful when you've been rejected many, many times. I no longer see women romantically as individuals, but almost as a singular entity, because a variety of girls have already rejected me, not just one. As friends and companions, they are great to have around, but romantically, I resent them all, I honestly do.



Agreed, although reluctantly, agreed

Quick aside: for the epitome of being an arse in cinema, let me suggest 'In The Company of Men' with Aaron Eckhart... talking about manipulative and deceitful.



I accuse them of poor judgement because of their actions. I am not a nice guy, aren't I likeable and friendly? Here you see a different picture, but in truth I am a nice guy, just embittered. So why would girls write me off as "having poor judgement" for being nice and friendly? Where is my lack of judgement? I am nice, kind, playful, friendly, etc and so forth, what judgement would they deem me unworthy of?

Yes, I do write them off, and for the reason that they often choose jerks and overly confident guys over nice guys, who are kind and friendly and are better suited to them. As I mentioned before as well, the same principle goes for nice guys as well, because they do tend to go for cute to beautiful, and ignore girls who are average to ugly looking in appearence. The ironic contradiction, guys rejecting nice guys and nice guys rejecting average to unattractive girls. I would be a tremendous hypocrite if I didn't admit to not being interested in average looking to unattractive girls, however, I would be well mannered about it and consider them friends I'm not like a girl who just ignores a guy or never talks to him again, despite my hateful ramblings, I act with honor. I don't want Aphrodite or a goddess of a female, cute will suffice nicely.



Unfortunatley, that is true as well, there is no "justice" in life or love, but I search for justification in it nevertheless. The only consolidation is that we all harvest what we sow, we all pay the consequences for our actions.

I have been honestly trying, and I've had no success, which is a continued mockery of my current state of aggrivation. I hope and then my hopes are dashed upon the rocks, so what can I say? What has hope done for me in this instance?

Thank you, AM, for your response... first and foremost.

By lumping all women together, are you not committing the same 'sin' of prejudgment that they are accused of, by dismissing the 'nice guy' in favor of someone who, by your measure, treats them poorly? Also, is it not possible that the needs of some of these women might be that they actually do desire some of those traits? For example, while I do not want an abusive partner, I do want one who can argue with me, who can tell me I'm wrong plainly and directly. Some people might find that unpleasant or unwanted, but it works for me... don't know if that makes any sense. I do not fault you for feeling your pain, or being upset and resentful for what has happened; however, I cannot encourage you to extend that sentiment to the future, to punish what is yet undone in retribution for the hurt you've already endured.

I don't think you're written off for having poor judgment for being nice. Going back to what was said before about traits, I would be a poor choice of partner for someone who desires machismo in their relationship - that's not me. You keep trying to find reason, to rationalize the actions of all under a single rule - and it's not possible. At 21, the girls I knew were superficial and shallow, preoccupied with self and the expectations of others instead of spending a single moment understanding themselves. This is a gross generalization, but after spending years teaching, it is something I've experienced enough to at least place it in the majority occurrence category for me. Have you tried dating older women? Have you tried identifying what characteristics - objectively, not through your biased eyes of past experience - that are attracting the women you are attracted to? When does the bitterness take over, and you cease to be the nice guy you once were and start acting callous and expecting to get hurt every time? And if you have a qualitative requirement on physical beauty... well, then I must say I really worry that you preclude an opportunity. Expecting your first relationship, any relationship, to conform to standards born out of ignorance (not being rude, but pointing out that there isn't a basis for them) is really unfair to any potential partner. Some of the women I've dated over the years would not even be defined at classically cute, but to me, they were striking and intensely attractive because of who they were. Perhaps that will evolve for you as time passes and you grow older, but I really don't know.

There are consequences for our actions, but when we become preoccupied with the karma of others, we can allow ourselves to become mired in negativity. You allow their responses to rule you, and you become more and more of what you detest and others see. This is merely my experience, but it's something that has shown itself true for me time and time again. What has hope done for you? Given you the chance to try again. What has giving up given you? The assurance that you won't have any new hurts, only the old ones to cherish and a long-aching loneliness to put on the mantle like a martyr's trophy? My apologies if that is harsh, but I don't know how to make myself plain here.


M.


M.