Obsessiveness and AS? Could it develop into stalking?

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Wow , are you that ugly?

I would like to hear the rest of the story , the aftermath , how did you treat her later ? If I was you, I would never say any 'hi' to her even if we're bumped into each others.

It's really been tough on me. I won't usually be up front with other people about AS. But I WILL politely ask that they don't mince words or waste subtleties on me.

I'm from the southeastern United States, so I was surrounded by typical southern indirectness and manners. I've NEVER really been able to hold my own in polite conversation unless it was about something I knew about--and then I'd tend to hang on to the topic of conversation until I'd effectively killed it.

But apparently some of it rubbed off on me. When I lived in upstate New York for 2 years, I found I was better able to hold someone's interest. I got along with "Yankees" better because I never had to guess what they thought about me! And while a lot of times I was being serious, my New York acquaintances misread it as my sense of humor because of how well it flowed with their sarcasm.

Maybe I was just lucky, but the girls up there didn't seem (to me) quite as fickle as girls I'd known before at home, and fewer girls seemed creeped out by me. The Korean girls LOVED me for some reason I never figured out (I'm caucasian, but I've been mistaken before as having Asian features). My girlfriend at the time was like "I don't like those girls."

*sigh*

I miss that place!

But in retrospect, and understanding what AS is and what it means, it's much easier as an adult having learned hard lessons to control the appearance of obsessive tendencies and effectively reduce the "creep factor."

I was never overtly hostile to her, but don't recall exchanging more than a few words at any given time even years later. I imagine she was fine with that.

Some things I've kept watch of since that incident, especially with women or even people in general who aren't especially assertive:

1. Seeing if they generally look away from me in conversation or indeed walk faster, like the girl I mentioned was doing.
2. If I see them on a regular basis at school or work, taking a day or two "off" from engaging them in conversation and seeing if they:
a) acknowledge me passing by
b) try to include me in a group conversation setting with other people
or
c) just ignore me.
3. Seeing if I could have an "active" conversation with them whereby I see if they are paying attention to what I'm saying by asking questions or making remarks, and so on. In my mid-teens I had a more AS trait of lecturing, which I still do a bit now, but I like to think I talk to people more on their terms than on my terms like I used to. If I can gauge that someone isn't listening to what I'm saying, regardless of whether it has anything to do with me I might be better off leaving them alone.

Great list --

#2 -- I do this too, in case I'm making a nuisance of myself. I'm hypersensitive to rejection, so sometimes I actually mess myself up here, but I've been rejected (romantically and socially) enough to the point that I would rather play it safe than take the hit to my self-esteem.

I also turn it around by freezing out people who aren't friendly enough to me. If someone seems cold, not so into me, etc., I will give them the silent treatment and not look at them or acknowledge them. Usually what happens is that this goes on for a month, and then they come crawling back, trying to get into my good graces. Of course, it's just temporary, because as soon as they get my attention again, they go sliding back to their complacent ways. If I don't get the level of respect I want from someone, I can be cold and cruel very quickly and effectively, as well as indefinitely. Probably not a great way to live life, but it's one of the few social weapons I wield well.

#3 -- Wish I could get out of lecturing. I get on a roll, and then realize the person talking to me jumped off the ride about 5 minutes ago when I started blathering. On the other hand, those that do stick around (like my wife) are instant candidates for something more.

I second that. Obsession is obsession, AS or not.

In Regina, Saskatchewan just recently, a man who's been stalking a woman nonstop for 35 years was banished from Regina for a year because he simply. would. not. stop.

The man and the object of his affections met at a wedding in 1974. They dated briefly. But when it was over, he couldn't accept. He kept harassing her family, sending showers of gifts and flowers, and wouldn't get the message that she did not want to be with him. He even filed nonsense lawsuits like some garbage about he wanted to sue her for failing to marry him.

I have to wonder what's wrong with that guy, but I suppose it's possible he's got AS...

I had this exact same situation happen to me in high school. It was a huge blow to my confidence, and along with the other situation I posted about on here, has made me become even more worried about what guys might think of me.

I also had this happen to me online, but they were on a public art site and I loved their blogs...I was honestly interested in getting to know them better, but somehow they felt I was "stalking" them.

I think it's totally unfair that you were labeled a stalker. (And same goes for my situations too.) To me, a stalker is someone who shows up at your house, follows you in their car, calls you constantly, and makes threats.

WTF is with this resurrecting of years old threads lately?

I've always been labeled a cyber-stalker. In my opinion, even at my worst (years ago) I was harmless, not a threat to the woman...just not taking "no" for an answer.

I talked to my sophomore year crush on the internet. She wanted nothing to do with me since I was unpopular and unattractive to her, so she started telling everyone I was a stalker. I was just desperate and lonely for female company. I couldn't understand why she wanted nothing to do with me. After all, we were both just people, not Gods. I'd talk to her about regular stuff...the way you'd talk to a friend. So after a while she'd talk to me (online) but then behind my back tell everyone I was stalking her.

I've had a few situations like this in the past. Or, better yet, in high school, obsessing over a girl that wanted nothing to do with me...then I'd tell people I had a crush on her, she'd find out and label me a creeper or a stalker...even if I wasn't contacting them on the internet or following them around (I've never done the following around thing.)

A few years ago (this after the AS diagnosis) I randomly got a crush on an old neighbor and acquaintance from high school after seeing a pic of her on myspace. I'd tell her my problems, use the sympathy card to try to get a date. But the fact is, while I was disturbed for randomly crushing over a girl I hadn't seen in years (and never liked to begin with)...part of that was bad judgment due to severe depression and low self-esteem. Why I picked her of all people to bug, I have no idea, other than that she was my first crush at like age 5...so maybe there was some nostalgia or something. I saw a pic of her the other day, the her of now, and I wouldn't even date her or go out with her if she called me right now begging for a date. She's a kind 5 on the 10 scale by anyone's standards, and she also wasn't very understanding. (Her family and my family were close back in the day...so it wasn't like she was a random person and obviously she could tell I was depressed...so in a way, she was being cold by at least not being nicer about it.)

I think I'm over that part of my life.

Well, let's see the options:

1) Start a new thread with a similar topic and get responses like: "We've already discussed this; why didn't you do a search for old threads before you posted?"

2) Resurrect an old thread and get comments like: "What's with this resurrecting of years old threads lately?"



As for the topic: I worry about this myself. I know that I can be a bit obsessive when I do get a crush on someone and I hope that it's not coming across as creepy, but I know that it easily could when I sit back and view myself objectively. It leaves me not quite knowing what's an acceptable level of displayed interest.

Can and has!

TRYING TO TALK TO SOMEBODY IS NOT STALKING.

If you were in a relationship with someone (assuming you actually loved each other and such) and you refuse to talk to them or even read their e-mails, then YOU are wrong.

It is NOT RIGHT to just ignore somebody because you did some stupid s**t to them! There is ALWAYS a possibility that something is very, very wrong.

Stalking involves a DANGER TO YOUR LIFE. And usually either a stranger or your parent.

IF YOU EVER CARED ABOUT SOMEBODY and if you still care whether they live or die, then THEY ARE NOT STALKING YOU.

There is absolultey nothing wrong with reading the posts of someone you care about, or just wanting to watch them walk by if they won't talk to you since that is the only pleasure you will get for the rest of your life. Anything that stops your pain without hurting anybody is never wrong.

And if they say it "hurts" them for you to sit 2 feet away from them, then that is wrong and f****d up.

So what if somebody drove by your house? Unless they tried to come inside the house that is not going to affect you in any way. If you get scared stupidly just because somebody drove by your house it is your own fault.

If you are not going to be physically hurt then it is not stalking.

If you don't KNOW the guy then that is completely different. Or if it's a parent or something.

But if someone is in Love with you (for real not for fake from a stranger) and they just wish to make sure you are still alive or whatever, then mistreating them makes YOU an a**hole, not them.

There are many people who have said this same thing before me, in fact it seems most people agree with me here. But this is a huge problem when the idiots say, "Oh my god, this ugly guy said hi to me today he is stalking me1111," and someone else says, "He looked at my Facebook profile?!??! omg I'm calling the cops.. who, if they are mildly intelligent, will tell me i am an idiot!1!! !". Yes a huge deal definitely worth ranting about.

Yes stalking can involve a danger to your life. This danger frequently comes from an ex. The police know this even if you don't.

edited to change "stalking does involve a danger to your life" to "stalking can involve a danger to your life". Leaguegirl's post was a reminder to me that it's still stalking even if there isn't a threat. It is the repeated, unwanted intrusion into someone's life that makes it stalking. I was trying to say how dangerous stalking from an ex is, but don't want to diminish the harrasment factor of being stalked by somebody who doesn't threaten but also doesn't stop stalking, like Leaguegirl experienced.

Last edited by Janissy on 15 Aug 2010, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If I have no interest in talking to someone because I am not interested in them or I don't like how they treat me or the fact we don't get along, I tell them I don't want to talk to them anymore and to please not send me anymore IMs and emails or calling me and they still keep IMing me or sending me emails or PMs when I have specifically told them I don't want to talk or be their friend, I have every right to ignore them and delete their messages and not answer their calls or IMs. That is stalking.

I was stalked on AIM once even though that person believes he never did but he kept IMing me and creating new screen names to IM me when I told him I didn't want to talk to him anymore and to please stop taliking to me. That is stalking since he kept on doing it. Then he finally stopped. I had my reasons to not talk to him. He didn't respect me, he kept joking around and when we argue, I would try and change the topic but he would refuse to change it and I just didn't enjoy talking to him and also the fact he wouldn't stop IMing me when I tell him I didn't want to talk anymore. He would also get emotionally abusive if he didn't get his way. Many people had problems with him too and he was very hard to get rid of, I even had to create a new screen name so that when he was online, I would go to my other user name and continue talking to my friends there than having to sign off and bam all my conversations with my other buddies had to end all because of that one dude. It was a scary experiance and then I decided to just toughen up and start blocking him every time he IMs me under a new sn and don't say anything to him. I even left a message to him in my IM profile just to humiliate him so he leave me alone. Besides I found out a few years later he is a pedophile and he was banned from here for talking about having sex with kids I was told.

There was even a member here who kept creating sockpuppets just to keep harrassing a member here because of what happened between them last fall and he never got over it so he kept stalking her. He flood her inbox with spam and say things to her and he told me he liked doing it because she is taking it so seriously and it bugs her so much and bothers her he keeps on doing it becuse of that. I told her to just ignore him, delete his PMs, do not give him any attention and keep reporting them to the mods. So does this make her a bad person if she ignored his PMs and kept on deleting them and didn't make a big deal about it?

I am sorry if this makes me a jerk and if that person goes to suicide because I wasn't into him, I do not care. I will not be manipulated or controlled, especially if they threaten suicide like that is supposed to get me to take them and date them or be their friend or if they get abusive because they weren't getting their way.

Having this happen is a very scary thing and I assume you have never been there based on your post rayvn.

Right.

BUT...

The law doesn't operate under the influence of emotion. You're making a very strong appeal to emotion, desire, love, and so on. You aren't taking into account that the laws we live under make us responsible for our own actions.

Basically the way law works is any time there is a problem, real or perceived, and you call the cops, the cops have to decide whether there really is a problem. You could, for instance, call the cops on me for breaking into your house and stealing your stuff. But if the cops come over to your house to take your report and collect evidence, and they notice you've got a rusted-out car sitting on concrete blocks with waist-high grass growing up over it, a roof that hasn't been repaired in 10 years, and cheap, trashy kitschy wall/table decorations, no electricity or running water, etc., and you yourself have a bad case of meth-mouth, and you accuse ME of stealing your gold Rolex watch and no one can confirm you ever even HAD one, and no one else ever saw me anywhere NEAR your house, they probably won't believe you and then search your tool shed to see what chemicals you have that's making their eyes burn.

But if you had a widescreen plasma TV the size of a wall, an original Renoir painting, 5 sets of antique china, and a million dollars' worth of gold jewelry, diamonds, and so on, and you catch some crooks on video surveillance loading your stuff into a van AND you know exactly who it was and what kind of grudge they have against you, then the cops will go after them and arrest them.

I mean, you can cook up pretty much any kind of story about anyone you don't like, and as long as you are believable, the cops will go out and arrest whoever you want arrested. This is not a BAD thing as long as the accuser isn't abusing the system, and the cops and courts assume that the accuser is an honest victim.

So stalking laws are there to protect the victim and prevent much worse crimes from happening. Honestly, they don't do ENOUGH to help the victims, but making the laws tougher and easier to enforce actually makes them EASIER to abuse.

The story I told about my friend who came out of an abusive relationship--that DID actually happen, and that was a case when the law actually worked the way it was supposed to.

You have to keep in mind that if you creep someone out, whether you mean to or not, that person will, in some way, make it very plain that you upset them. Running away, crying, calling you an idiot, getting a friend to "talk" to you about leaving her alone, whatever. If your girlfriend breaks up with you, do NOT try to see her again. Period. Even if you mean well. Even if you agree to "just be friends." Stay away. Anyone who finds your presence disturbing is NOT your friend. If you're "worried" about her, tough. It's not your job anymore to "protect" her.

My friend was in the kind of relationship where she was beaten and raped repeatedly. But the problem was 1) She had no proof, and 2) She didn't want to mess up her ex like that. She experienced a lot of PTSD (not officially diagnosed, but just common sense) after that, and she went into panic attacks every time she saw the guy. But since he wouldn't just leave her alone after she broke up with him, we had to DO SOMETHING to get some kind of relief so she could begin healing. And just talking to this guy wasn't cutting it. He was scared I was trying to steal his girlfriend when all I was really doing was attempting to clean up the mess HE made. Which just added to the rage and insanity. And I was the only one at the time who actually believed her. He was the type of guy who had an almost hypnotic way of convincing everyone that he was right, he was a nice guy, and his ex was just crazy. I'm just not the kind of guy who falls for it. Remember "the force" only has a strong influence on WEAK minds--you can't just wave your hand and make me believe whatever you say. And eventually two or three of her other friends started to notice what was going on.

And I really do think he was trying to win based on personality alone. That kind of thing just doesn't cut it in court--don't you dare think that crap you see on TV or in the movies is real. Persuasion and personality works IF you have a strong case, but it takes an experienced lawyer to pull that kind of thing off. Justice Court doesn't TYPICALLY work that way.

On a side note: If you ever get called before a JP (Justice of the Peace) for anything worse than a traffic ticket, GET A LAWYER. The accuser is a PERSON, not a prosecutor, and the JP IS your prosecutor. JP's are elected officials, not appointed judges, and they're common, everyday people, not lawyers. The accuser probably WON'T be represented or counseled by a lawyer, so your best chance is to get an actual attorney who knows how to make your accuser look like an idiot. In our case, the accused made himself look like an idiot, so there was very little that we as witnesses actually had to do or say.

Cops and judges see through the emotional side of a case. They don't care how much you "love" the person who accuses you of stalking. They don't care if she's at risk for hurting herself. They don't care if you were "just trying to explain," or "just trying to work things out." All they see is that you, regardless of intention, knowingly launched an emotional attack on this person and caused some kind of trauma that was not invited or asked for. And you can be fined or even jailed for it. Because of the obvious problems of this, that it doesn't really protect the victim very well but also invites a wide potential for abuse, a "slap on the wrist" is the best the courts can do at that stage, before it becomes a felony.

But yes, trying to talk to someone IS stalking, like it or not, because you have to see it from the victim's perspective, from law enforcement perspective, and from the court's perspective.

Now, STALKING by just talking to someone is hard to prove as stalking. But it's DEFINITELY harassment. And the two are closely connected. My friend included a stalking charge, but the judge threw it out. For a first offense, he got off easy. Thankfully it never happened again. But you have to keep in mind many women in this situation end up dead.

On the flip side of all this:

#1 way to fight it--get a lawyer. The judge is not going to have any doubts as to your innocence because the accuser can too easily shoulder the burden of proof. YOUR job is to flat-out DENY that what you're being accused of even happened. You can call the mental state of the accuser into question and call witnesses to back you up. And those are just examples. But no matter HOW you fight it, the goal is to make WHAT you say as close to the truth as possible (assuming you're innocent) and BE CONSISTENT. You cannot, under any circumstances, let what you say incriminate you (5th Amendment rights).

"Where you there?"

"Yes."

"Did you know that she would be there?"

"No."

"Did you upset her?"

"No."

"Did you speak to her?"

"No."

"Did you upset her?"

"No."

"Was she upset?"

"I don't know."

"Her friends say she was upset. Do you know why she was upset?"

"No."

"Ma'am, he says that he didn't know you were there, that he didn't approach you, that he doesn't know why you were upset, that he didn't even talk to you. Your witnesses admit they don't even know what's going on, either. Is it possible that this is all in your head? Neither of your stories add up, case dismissed. And sir, I don't know what's wrong with her, but you'll do better to stay away from this one. OK?"

See what I mean? Now, if the friends say you DID talk to her, that you DID approach her, that you DID upset her with your mere presence, that you'd been warned to stay away, then you have a problem. But if the friends were just hanging out, weren't anywhere near her, wouldn't have seen who she was talking to, much less who YOU were talking to, then they can't claim to know why she was upset, either, or that you were even at fault.

That's pretty sloppy, legally speaking, and I'm not a lawyer, but hopefully you get the idea. Deny everything, stick to your story.

Something that helped us (helping the accuser) was that 4 or 5 of us who actually witnessed what happened sat down together well before the trial to discuss what we all saw to make sure we had our stories straight. Witnesses aren't allowed to hear testimony for the simple reason false witnesses can just simply repeat another witness's story, which screws up the evidence. Judges are going to be looking for inconsistencies. This judge heard my friend and two of her witnesses, and the stories were IDENTICAL. They never even called me, and being the aspie of the group it was probably for the best. The guy's witnesses were all "character" witnesses intended to show that he just wasn't the kind of guy who would ever do such a thing. Character witnesses are not really witnesses, though. He would have done better if he'd subpoenaed witnesses who could have shown us as false, but I doubt it would have really held up.

Anyway...

That whole thing about, say, cyberstalking on facebook or whatever. If all you do is see someone's relationship status as "single and looking," you think she's pretty, so you contact her, ask her out on a date, she sees you're some ugly, fat, bald dude like me, and says "hell no, I'm calling the cops," she doesn't have a leg to stand on because (a) no crime has been committed, and (b) she has no evidence that it did. The cops will come over, read her email or post, and say "you're an idiot, please don't ever call us again." It's rare that those kinds of things even make it to court, and surely a judge will see through the idiocy.