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women like the way I look but not the way I am

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Fullofstars
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29 Sep 2011, 12:48 pm

TheWingman wrote:
Confidence doesn't mean strength, it's just an appearance of strength.


No, that's cockiness, charisma, charm, etc. Confidence is an inner thing, a belief in your strengths. You don't need to be an overall strong person (nobody is) to have confidence. You just need to be able to identify your strengths and value yourself for them. For instance, you stated that women are physically attracted to you. That's something you can feel confident about. I'm sure you have other, less superficial traits to feel confident about. Afterall, you said yourself that lack of confidence is your only bad trait! So where does the insecurity come from, if you're a good guy with good looks?



Grisha
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29 Sep 2011, 12:52 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
I assumed they meant confidence in general. Do you have any confidence in any areas of your life? You must have some in the business arena.


Of course, I can stand up in front of a roomful of hedge fund managers and make them take notes as fast as they can write, but put me in front of an attractive, available woman and I might as well be 10 years old - it's awful.

I think it's the main reason I can usually get a first date but very rarely get a second. I feel like if they would just give me a little more time I could surprise them, but of course I never seem to get the chance...



MXH
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29 Sep 2011, 12:55 pm

Ok so the excuse here for someone who has had no success at all relationship wise is that he is not confident. I disagree, even on my darkest day I excel in personality. I take risks, I hold back, just as an average person if not even better than the average. Yet what do I show for it? An under average successrate (more of a failure rate but thats another story). I think theres more than just this confidence BS. There has to be something else.



TheWingman
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29 Sep 2011, 12:58 pm

Fullofstars wrote:
TheWingman wrote:
Confidence doesn't mean strength, it's just an appearance of strength.


No, that's cockiness, charisma, charm, etc. Confidence is an inner thing, a belief in your strengths. You don't need to be an overall strong person (nobody is) to have confidence. You just need to be able to identify your strengths and value yourself for them. For instance, you stated that women are physically attracted to you. That's something you can feel confident about. I'm sure you have other, less superficial traits to feel confident about. Afterall, you said yourself that lack of confidence is your only bad trait! So where does the insecurity come from, if you're a good guy with good looks?


Good question. As I'm an aspie, It tool me a long to be able to look at somebody in the eyes. Because of being very shy and very attracted to girls, I have been very frustrated in my life. and I still have those feelings around girls I find attractive.

I agree on what you say here about confidence, you put it better that I could have, but this being true, you must admit that it is also not something obvious to see in people.



Bopkasen
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29 Sep 2011, 12:59 pm

Grisha wrote:
Fullofstars wrote:
Success in ALL OTHER areas of life. Girls know this. They know that an insecure man is likely to stumble through life with his head down never acheiving his full potential because his anxieties keep him from taking risks. They also know that they will most likely end up having to mother you and nurse you through your insecurities, and this gets old. Fast.


Disagree.

I have been quite successful in ALL OTHER areas of life (read: career/earning potential) and it hasn't done anything for my confidence with women, I'm not the only one, including possibly the OP.

You can't judge a book by it's cover, you're probably missing some hidden gems (and finding some invisible turds) because of your inability to look beyond conventional wisdom.

Also your contention that you need to "mother" and "nurse" is nonsense in many cases, once I get through the initial awkwardness and hit my stride I'm just fine. Unfortunately, attitudes like what you describe usually keep me (and others like me) from getting that far.

You should give this some thought...



On the contrary, a friend who liked me says that confidence and determination are the attractive factor.

People do judge book by the cover in some case not all of it.



hale_bopp
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29 Sep 2011, 12:59 pm

MXH wrote:
Ok so the excuse here for someone who has had no success at all relationship wise is that he is not confident. I disagree, even on my darkest day I excel in personality. I take risks, I hold back, just as an average person if not even better than the average. Yet what do I show for it? An under average successrate (more of a failure rate but thats another story). I think theres more than just this confidence BS. There has to be something else.


That something else would be aspergers.



Bopkasen
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29 Sep 2011, 1:01 pm

Grisha wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
I assumed they meant confidence in general. Do you have any confidence in any areas of your life? You must have some in the business arena.


Of course, I can stand up in front of a roomful of hedge fund managers and make them take notes as fast as they can write, but put me in front of an attractive, available woman and I might as well be 10 years old - it's awful.

I think it's the main reason I can usually get a first date but very rarely get a second. I feel like if they would just give me a little more time I could surprise them, but of course I never seem to get the chance...



Maybe get a wingman? Wingman can be a coach.



hale_bopp
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29 Sep 2011, 1:05 pm

Bopkasen wrote:
Grisha wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
I assumed they meant confidence in general. Do you have any confidence in any areas of your life? You must have some in the business arena.


Of course, I can stand up in front of a roomful of hedge fund managers and make them take notes as fast as they can write, but put me in front of an attractive, available woman and I might as well be 10 years old - it's awful.

I think it's the main reason I can usually get a first date but very rarely get a second. I feel like if they would just give me a little more time I could surprise them, but of course I never seem to get the chance...



Maybe get a wingman? Wingman can be a coach.


Was that a pun on the thread author's name? ;)



MXH
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29 Sep 2011, 1:06 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
MXH wrote:
Ok so the excuse here for someone who has had no success at all relationship wise is that he is not confident. I disagree, even on my darkest day I excel in personality. I take risks, I hold back, just as an average person if not even better than the average. Yet what do I show for it? An under average successrate (more of a failure rate but thats another story). I think theres more than just this confidence BS. There has to be something else.


That something else would be aspergers.


unless i have it tattooed on my forehead i doubt anyone who ive not told has ever noticed. Hell I was in a hottub once talkking about life with a young man. He was a psychatrist. I asked him what he thought about AS and he gave me a gentle response. I told him i have it and he thought back through my life story and agreed that its likely. So until i told him a psychiatrist did not notice i had AS. What does the general population have to notice then? There is definetly something else. Some reason why peple seem to avoid me like the plague.



Bopkasen
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29 Sep 2011, 1:28 pm

hale_bopp wrote:
Bopkasen wrote:
Grisha wrote:
hale_bopp wrote:
I assumed they meant confidence in general. Do you have any confidence in any areas of your life? You must have some in the business arena.


Of course, I can stand up in front of a roomful of hedge fund managers and make them take notes as fast as they can write, but put me in front of an attractive, available woman and I might as well be 10 years old - it's awful.

I think it's the main reason I can usually get a first date but very rarely get a second. I feel like if they would just give me a little more time I could surprise them, but of course I never seem to get the chance...



Maybe get a wingman? Wingman can be a coach.


Was that a pun on the thread author's name? ;)



No.

I was talking about piloting and having someone as a co-pilot who is better than the pilot far as finding a girlfriend.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Sep 2011, 1:37 pm

Btw, female fellow green folks , when you say you want confidence in man, what kind of confidence you're talking about? The career confidence? the academic confidence? the social confidence?

I can recall that the least social confident nerds at school (those who would get red in front of girls) were the same guys who were the most confident to volunteer at solving the hardest math in class, in front of all the students. And some of the 'cool', sporty and socially straightforward guys where the opposite. So female greenies, how would you judge these nerds? confident or not confident?

So if ". Confidence is an inner thing, a belief in your strengths", the typical math nerd DOES usually have an inner belief in his math strength but what if he actually lacks the belief in his social strengths (maybe because he really lacks them?) ?

My gut feeling says that when you say you like confidence , you're usually referring to the social kind of confidence ALONE, aka the social straightforwardness and assertiveness (== the modern and civilized form of masculine aggressiveness) . I wish if you start calling things by their true names and not by vague yada-yada terms.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 29 Sep 2011, 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

emtyeye
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29 Sep 2011, 2:13 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Our primate ancestors probably preferred to mate with more aggressive males, which is the case of most nowadays primates.

Confidence is nothing but a subtle well-evolved form of productive aggressiveness.


Observational studies of chimpanzees have revealed that while the alpha males get the most action and attention, females sneak off with shy males and mate with them also. If this weren't so, all males would be Godzillas by now.



Grisha
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29 Sep 2011, 2:16 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
My gut feeling says that when you say you like confidence , you're usually referring to the social kind of confidence ALONE, aka the social straightforwardness and assertiveness . I wish if you start calling things by their true names and not by vague yada-yada terms.


+1,000 well said.

The true worth of a man is not determined my his attractiveness to women - and women are not infallible in this regard, although many seem to act like they are



Janissy
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29 Sep 2011, 2:17 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Btw, female fellow green folks , when you say you want confidence in man, what kind of confidence you're talking about? The career confidence? the academic confidence? the social confidence?

I can recall that the least social confident nerds at school (those who would get red in front of girls) were the same guys who were the most confident to volunteer at solving the hardest math in class, in front of all the students. And some of the 'cool', sporty and socially straightforward guys where the opposite. So female greenies, how would you judge these nerds? confident or not confident?

So if ". Confidence is an inner thing, a belief in your strengths", the typical math nerd DOES usually have an inner belief in his math strength but what if he actually lacks the belief in his social strengths (maybe because he really lacks them?) ?

My gut feeling says that when you say you like confidence , you're usually referring to the social kind of confidence ALONE, aka the social straightforwardness and assertiveness . I wish if you start calling things by their true names and not by vague yada-yada terms.


I think true confidence is more global than a mere belief in your strengths. That's just staying in your comfort zone (which is math, for your anecdotal nerd). The most attractive confidence to me is the belief that even if you fail it's not the end of the world and so you are willing to try things you may fail at. If I see the nerdy guy play to his strengths and solve the math problem, that's just to be expected. If I see that same nerdy guy decide that yes, this time he is going to go whitewater rafting even though he is not notably athletic, that's attractive confidence.



The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Sep 2011, 2:31 pm

Janissy wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Btw, female fellow green folks , when you say you want confidence in man, what kind of confidence you're talking about? The career confidence? the academic confidence? the social confidence?

I can recall that the least social confident nerds at school (those who would get red in front of girls) were the same guys who were the most confident to volunteer at solving the hardest math in class, in front of all the students. And some of the 'cool', sporty and socially straightforward guys where the opposite. So female greenies, how would you judge these nerds? confident or not confident?

So if ". Confidence is an inner thing, a belief in your strengths", the typical math nerd DOES usually have an inner belief in his math strength but what if he actually lacks the belief in his social strengths (maybe because he really lacks them?) ?

My gut feeling says that when you say you like confidence , you're usually referring to the social kind of confidence ALONE, aka the social straightforwardness and assertiveness . I wish if you start calling things by their true names and not by vague yada-yada terms.


I think true confidence is more global than a mere belief in your strengths. That's just staying in your comfort zone (which is math, for your anecdotal nerd). The most attractive confidence to me is the belief that even if you fail it's not the end of the world and so you are willing to try things you may fail at. If I see the nerdy guy play to his strengths and solve the math problem, that's just to be expected. If I see that same nerdy guy decide that yes, this time he is going to go whitewater rafting even though he is not notably athletic, that's attractive confidence.


With all respect, that's just talk. Why It's always the nerd who should try to be athletic and try to acquire something like rafting in order to gain the label "confident" by most women, but on the other hand the skilled rafter isn't expected to try to get better at math even if he's the dumbest at it in order to gain that label? because I think he would be called courageous and confident anyways.

Why, instead, just say the things as truly are, like for instance, the rafter's physical bravery and his athletic body are more attractive than the nerd's.



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 29 Sep 2011, 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grisha
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29 Sep 2011, 2:33 pm

Janissy wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Btw, female fellow green folks , when you say you want confidence in man, what kind of confidence you're talking about? The career confidence? the academic confidence? the social confidence?

I can recall that the least social confident nerds at school (those who would get red in front of girls) were the same guys who were the most confident to volunteer at solving the hardest math in class, in front of all the students. And some of the 'cool', sporty and socially straightforward guys where the opposite. So female greenies, how would you judge these nerds? confident or not confident?

So if ". Confidence is an inner thing, a belief in your strengths", the typical math nerd DOES usually have an inner belief in his math strength but what if he actually lacks the belief in his social strengths (maybe because he really lacks them?) ?

My gut feeling says that when you say you like confidence , you're usually referring to the
social kind of confidence ALONE, aka the social straightforwardness and assertiveness . I wish if you start calling things by their true names and not by vague yada-yada terms.


I think true confidence is more global than a mere belief in your strengths. That's just staying in your comfort zone (which is math, for your anecdotal nerd). The most attractive confidence to me is the belief that even if you fail it's not the end of the world and so you are willing to try things you may fail at. If I see the nerdy guy play to his strengths and solve
the math problem, that's just to be expected. If I see that same nerdy guy decide that yes, this time he is going to go whitewater rafting even though he is not notably athletic, that's attractive confidence.


Although I agree with everything you said, it still does not really address my point - what women find attractive is the "appearance" of confidence, especially in a form which caters to their specific tastes.

The guy who looks confident by female standards may be a relative coward while the quiet, shy guy around women may actually be extremely adventurous - I've seen this time and time and time again IRL...