How these trashy men even get into relationships?

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Exactly. They are playing the role of a nice guy to get what they want and then they turn crazy/mean. I've had it happen to myself more than once...I think it's made me a little neurotic... : /

Jono: Oh, I agree that hiding behind AS is super sh***y and damages everyone else. If I had to guess why women dump after they find a syndrome they think it is, it's probably because then they can put a name on it and because it ends their belief they can 'fix' the person if they hang on.

But it is super sh***y.

This sounds more like a personality disorder of some type. Children with autism are typically identified and diagnosed while up until very recently; people with aspergers were largely misunderstood and socially ostracized. We hud out in a variety of subcultures and fumbled along through life trying to get by and not understanding why we struggled so much.

The same reason guys fall for abusive or violent partners, whether male or female. The brain does funny things when we're in love.

OK, now that is just depressing! It's bad enough to know that decent women marry men like him. But if girls like this marry men like him there must be something major I don't understand about the world. (I mean, more than I previously thought.) A girl who was "amazingly gorgeous", smart and "from a very very very rich family" could surely have married just about any man she wanted, as long as he wasn't gay! And maybe even if he was. (Although it's possible she was a complete b***h, I guess - your description doesn't rule that out. )

Don't underestimate the extrovert charm and being good conversationalist. He mentioned he can talk about media and celeb gossip for hours, a lot of girls love this s**t, it is certainly way more entertaining for the majority of girls than talking about scientific discoveries or pokemon.

Celeb gossip for hours?Eew,kill me now.

You just nailed a part that truly sucks about these types of guys that they play the role of the nice guy and that part sucks the most...

Hell I believe it is more responsible for dating issues in this day and age then my AS is because I am a genuine nice guy...

Lord knows after trying many times unsuccessfully but watching the Jerks and A-Holes make it with girls I even wanted to be them not because I envied them but after so much being denied or rejected when I clearly posse all the quality's I heard the girls talk about that they wanted and yet when it came to me they didn't want me they wanted the Jerk...

I eventually came to start thinking it was the only way to make it was to adapt to the new world I was born in the wrong timezone I started to figure but I could never become the ass it just wasn't in me through nature or nurture it isn't who I am...

I am glad I couldn't change anyways even back then but it hasn't made things easier...

The nice guy personality the one the girls claim they want and I am not meaning all girls just using it collectively for flow of conversation I still believe somewhere there must be one that doesn't want the jerk...

Anyways the point being is being the nice guy the funny guy the caring guy and all the other things that make me me and wonderful created 2 types of situations in the dating world 1 was the girl who wouldn't date me at all probably figured my nice guy ability was just a act even though it was genuine thanks Jerk Guy...

The second one is The girl who realizes you are the nice guy but they don't want that they just want to use you for a little bit cause they know your nice...

There is a strange kinda 3rd category I have experienced the girl who gets with me, Dumps me for a Jerk Guy shortly thereafter but actually not only wants to be friends but have gone on and been willing to tell other girls how great i am if I asked which is really confusing I was so good that I wasn't good enough ???

I have had friends that have gone as far as talking to me about the quality of guy they look for and just straight up say me they want someone like me but when pushed its not me just someone like me in fact I have even been asked for advice about other people to see if they might match apparently well I can't navigate the dating world properly internally when I am outside of it looking at others I have a knack for it tis strange I have helped 2 or 3 people find people to love and marry helped end a abusive marriage the list goes on hell even ran into a ex once who blatantly told me she would come back if I asked. I didn't cause that would be a jerk thing instead I asked her a much more important question was she happy and she said she was and I said thats all that matters to me...

Anyways this turned into a rant but know that I have found this place and have finally escaped my catch all labeling from my past and have a real diagnosis I hope that being here will make my new foray back into the world of dating better as I try again once more to find the fabled person who doesn't just say she wants a guy who will treat her right but will take a chance on one unfortunately I wont lie past experiences make this look bleak the jerks and the trashy types have increased in number...

But at the same time this place gives me hope too cause I find so many people saying things and thinking things I only thought was me and more importantly I see answers and I see people who have tried things and learned different ways to overcome...

^^^

I've read things that say "Women want dominant, social, talkative men."

When confused what these mean, you see "Controlling, never spends time with gf, never listens to her."

What we want to think this means "Amazing sex, has lots of friends, good conversationalist"

That is taking it to the extreme. What I mean is anything media or local social circles related he can converse and small talk about it with ease no matter the subject.

Every time I observe NTs striking up conversations as strangers and ending up friends or more than friends always starts and relies heavily on this kind of small talk.

I think, basically, as humans, we don't actually want people who care too much about something. For example, in the one actual job interview I passed completely, I showed up in a normal T-shirt, jeans, didn't even comb my hair, etc, got the job. Other job interviews I showed up wearing dress shoes, basically trying as hard as possible, and I didn't get the job.

I think that's one reason. Someone who's got a crush on you seems unappealing as they're to some extent, trying too hard, and we interpret this as bad for some reason.

I think the other reason besides this weird phenomena is that "scummy" people are better able to manipulate people's emotions and make them do things that are otherwise illogical. I don't know what it is about it. For example, I had a boss who played games like this. He fired me and then called me days later and was like "hey we need a driver, come back" thankfully (at the time felt like crap) my car was broken so I couldn't work. He offered to teach me to make masala chai tea later, and I wasn't even working at the place at that time for like 3-5 months, and first time walking through the door he says "hey, I need you to deliver this" and you know what? I did.

This guy, my old boss, he basically, nothing you ever did was good enough. He'd never compliment you ever. My friend who knew him better told me how he never even complimented his wife's cooking. He said his wife made better food everyday because of it. By "negging" as long as the person can put some hope of positivity forward, people will do more with negative feedback, because they wish to improve and make the person happy. We want to please and want validation from other people. By "negging" you can basically extend the loop to infinity until the person being negged decides to quit. If you put forward positivity right away then the loop is complete.

In another perspective, a world famous weightlifting coach, Ivan Abadjiev, worked this way, similar to my boss. You could set world records in training and he'd just say "well OK." People described training with him as being "a black hole, where the more work you do, the more work he gives you." And "he didn't do the normal high school football coach type pep talk thing, he'd just look at you with a look of utter disgust the entire time." You create basically a black hole feedback loop and you get people to accomplish whatever you want.

On this end, you can say the person being persuaded by the "black hole" tactics is emotionally weak because they care to please someone who's obviously, well, a dick. Why do they care? As probably most people never gave them said validation in their life, and Mr. Black Hole gives the promise of validation without actually giving it.

I guess you could also argue plain old simple bad luck and statistics, too, but I think the main thing I see in relationships (not even romantic, I didn't even use romantic examples at all in this) is what I guess I now call the black hole theory. I kinda resolved not to post too much on here, as I usually end up saying straight out dumb/hurtful/hateful/mean things, but I hope this is helpful in some way.

The entire point of negging is manipulation. When it comes to compelling an athlete or something, a little manipulation is fine. But when you're talking about a relationship that could potentially last for the rest of your lives, that's not a foundation you want to build on.

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Absolutely NOT my B.F.! Never was, never could be!
However, I reasonably sure that he or someone close to him does read this board. Why ? I'm very sure that someone @ our local Autism Assn. pulled him up short on his behavior after my 1st post. (It was suggested that I try & reason with him face to face) Well , he was having none of that. 'Interesting that from a scant description, in a pretty large Aspie population, in a large city, he was recognized.
Repeat behavior?

Things got quiet for a while, & then he got 2 of his old buddies from his former workplace to start bugging me. Now he's claimed that I'm stalking him! Nobody stalks Bad News! I'd rather hand feed plague rats.
I'm not suggesting that all this nightmare is directly related to Autism, or Asperghers. He may have a lot of other problems totally unrelated to them, BUT if he is using an Autism spectrum diagnosis to get away with other bad behavior, it would not surprise me at all. He is an extremely smart, sly, & manipulative person.

If I headed an org. that promoted the rights of individuals & research into a medical problem, I just might want this kind of behavior to be kept quiet & not achieve notoriety. This would respect the vast majority of people who do not exhibit those other aberrant behaviors, or use Autism Spectrum diagnosis as an excuse to act out.
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There are a**holes that are NT,and a**holes that are Autistic or have mental issues.a**holes come in all shapes and sizes,colors and creed,sexes and ages.No one group of people has a monopoly on bad behavior.My ex was not Autistic,most likely a personality disorder.
Choose your partner wisely,because if you have kids together,even if you are divorced,they will always be in your life,whether you like it or not.Sometimes it is very hard to be civil with them at family gatherings.