Who are the Self Proclaimed Nice Guys here?

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I agree. No one is entitled to a relationship. Another issue I see is learned helplessness. People feel powerless to get a mate and try to find something to blame for their unfair situation. That something usually is societal standards that make men/women not like them.

I think people who harp on the fallacy of "nice guys" are trying to help said "nice guys" see that they are not powerless. In fact, if the "nice guys" changed their attitude or took some specific action, they might find a mate. Maybe these posts seem negative, like an attack, because it is frustrating to see someone repeatedly complain about something that (in your opinion) is within that person's power to change.

I am saying that as an admitted fake "nice guy". My self-esteem was so low that I thought it was impossible to find a mate. I fell into that learned helplessness and blame. Now my self-esteem has improved to a point where I see that my low self-esteem was the problem. I was actually pushing women away from me because I felt unworthy of their attention, and I approached women with the attitude of "You wouldn't want to go out with me would you. No? I didn't think so. Sorry to bother you."

I think this learned helplessness and low self-esteem are the real problems, not being "too nice". Nobody likes to be around a sad sack or someone who is down on themselves all the time. They know that they will always have to try to boost up your self-esteem if they spend any time with you. They will have to listen to you complain over and over again. Who wants that?

Self proclaimed ret*d. Definitely crashing off prednisone now...

Besides all the social conventions involved, there is also the issue of some people on the spectrum being so wrapped up in their interests that even if they got dates, the interests would take higher priority. We have to budget our time better if we want successful relationships.

That said, the main problem I have with these threads is that they divert focus from threads where people ask for legitimate advice regarding relationships.

I thought I had forgotten to read it after I read your post didn't see it when I reread. I sometimes forget or mistype words so I understand.

Not me, I been raised to be Mr Nice guy, and all its cost me is pain and rejection, who needs the sunshine anyways. its just anther rainy day. nobody sees my tears in the rain, just an ordinary day. with you self enamored by your own pain.

So, does being bitter about a rejection count as entitlement? I've seen both men and women being bitter about that.

Can we not turn this into another classical NiceGuy discussion?

Mozartian, Greek, or Rome?

Wrongplanetian.

For every manipulative jerk who calls himself a nice guy, there are 10 genuinely nice guys who don't resort to manipulation but consider themselves nice guys yet fail at having/maintaining relationships because they don't know how to go about doing so. If girls take issue with the first type, what else is an issue that they avoid being in a relationship with the the second type?

Since the OP wants us to name names, well, there's Brianruns, whom I strongly believe to be a genuinely nice guy and consider to be a Nice Guy. The problem with the label is that members here will think I'm trying to insult the guy when I think there shouldn't be anything bad about the label. Within the context of dating and relationships, it's a label that's supposed to describe genuinely nice guys who fail at having relationships because they're too nice. Not because they're manipulative and/or pretending to be nice ...

Why not call them Unsuccessful Jerks instead?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say yes, a little. The most mentally healthy thing anyone can do after a breakup that was not their choice is to accept that that wasn't the right person for them, and move on.

A little bit of resentment/anger/bitterness is perfectly normal, but if it turns into rotten behavior on someone's part (such as stalking, or endless badmouthing or backstabbing), then my take is: "no wonder the other person dumped them!" Use the anger as a motivating factor, recognize that you're better off without someone who obviously was capable of treating you worse than you deserved, and move on.

In the process, it helps if you try to recognize what went wrong and use the knowledge to your benefit. If the other person is shallow and incapable of recognizing what positives you brought to the relationship, try to eliminate shallow people from your potential future partner pool. If, OTOH, you were too clingy and needy, or bitchy/asshole-y and demanding, work on improving that before you get into another relationship.

Every one of life's traumas is a potential learning experience. No one is judged by having suffered a traumatic event, but if you don't learn something from it, you're cheating yourself and the world around you.

How many of those nice guys end up stalking and backstabbing? That's not typical nice guy behavior. That's more like a psychopath who shouldn't be lumped in the same category as genuinely nice guys (even if he refers to himself as nice).

That's kind of my point. A truly nice person wouldn't do those things. The "NiceGuyTM" of endless discussion here would. That kind of behavior is definitely misguided, but not necessarily psychopathic.

Do you think that billiscool or Brianruns stalk and backstab?

^^

Insufficient data.

I don't think BrianRuns or billiscool are Nice Guys ™.

Brian is, I think, someone with very low self-esteem, which is combined with desperation and a sense of being doomed. Not a good combination. Bill, well, just isn't very cool at all and is pretty clueless.

Nice Guys ™ are really misogynists, who think that they are entitled to a relationship simply because they have a pulse and a penis.