What is the point of marriage?

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Not necessarily in the USA for double income no kid couples.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1990 ... ses-filing
Before she got married, Cathleen Lorenz paid about 20 percent of her income in taxes. After she got married, she found about 30 percent of her income eaten up by taxes, because the couple`s combined income went up and their deductions didn`t.

Haha, I love debates (and learning from them), and hate name calling, so that was never going to happen

Can I delve into this just one more time? To me it doesn't matter if/that I'm in the minority of not being scum in the heart, I still want to find someone else who is as well. Wouldn't you? I'm sure I'm misinterpreting here but it seems like you are saying you would need to marry someone because they probably won't genuinely care about what is best for you. You would be okay with spending the rest of your life with that person, rather than find someone who doesn't need the contract to "care"?

That is a misinterpretation. I may have articulated myself incorrectly. I do that.

My main reasoning is not that someone should only stay with you because of a marriage, but that commitment means that every reasonable effort will be made to rectify issues before a split is explored.

I speak from a very personal angle on this issue that may clarify what I mean.

If I did not mention, or if you did not assume, I am married. Have been for over 9 years. With the same woman for what will be 12 years in a few weeks.

About three years ago, we started to go through a very rough time in our marriage. There was ALOT of tumult in both of our lives. From my end, I had become extremely emotionally neglectful toward my wife. Downright cold to be honest.

This came on the tail end of the sudden death of the only man I ever viewed as a father-figure, and my best friend finding out he was having a kid (VERY complex psychological issue for me which would require too much explanation- just accept it were traumatic, as though this friend actually died too almost). Now I had found out both pieces of news out within an hour or two of each other. These events profoundly affected me in a very permanent way. Combine that with my existing undiagnosed mental issues, extended unemployment for both of us and it was to be blunt, a total shitstorm the likes of which I had previously not seen.

Now this is not said to excuse my coldness. To me, there's a big difference between a reason and an excuse. Most people I think struggle to grasp the differences. My point here is to illustrate my awful mental state, not condone my neglect.

Now my wife has alot of mental/emotional issues of her own. One of which is a sensitivity toward being ignored. Another is unending negativity impacting her as she is a sponge for others emotions. I was doing both of these every single day for what was about two years. She struggles with confrontation, so she never actually told me in blunt terms how bad things had gotten and I couldn't tell in my state. I was also abusing Xanax and alcohol at the time pretty badly. This were not fully known by her, but my ability to think or realize how I was being was basically down to nothing. And she couldn't confront me, so it festered.

Things had gotten very testy over a two, three month period between us. One day it culminated in a huge blow up, and all these things spilled out of her from two plus years of building. It amounted to she figured Id never get out of it and she had lost patience. She couldn't live like this anymore. She was going to leave. The reason she didn't? We were married. And she valued that commitment she made for better or worse. She gave her word and valued sticking by it. She was willing to divorce if she had to. But that step was the difference from her walking out and her staying.

I could go on about the fairness on both sides of that incident. It's mostly irrelevant. I think these sorts of things happen to couples all of the time, and this was what I see as a fairly typical anecdote. Whether a stupid technicality or not, marriage acts as an additional safety net for many people through very tough times.

So to answer your question. It's not about "needing" a contract to care. It's about having that thing to "talk you off of the edge" when your really close to ending it. Everyone gets to the end of their rope with certain things. It's easier to end the whole thing than it is fix it. People are inclined in most cases to take the easy way out, which is almost always the self-serving one. I believe that to be a part of human nature. This contract is that very thing that gives you just that one final try that you may not otherwise have without it.

In my case, it's what caused my wife to stick around and give me one last chance. And it was a wake up call. I did a 180. I had a new appreciation for her and wanted to show it and make up for my neglect. I addressed, to the best of my ability the issues she had, and did quite well. A year later I was fawning over her and she was basically ignoring me now. So it flipped. Now I was faced with the decision. Are things too broken? Did I break this beyond repair even though I couldn't help it? My commitment kept me there. Nothing else. I love her but felt I more than made up for my transgressions and it wasn't enough.

Now we are a year later and our relationship has never been better. Not even in our pre-married days. We have a new understanding and trust in each other having endured that and come out (hopefully) the other side. We realize we both REALLY love each other, but are compromised emotionally. Emotionally compromised people do things they regret. Especially when they feel hurt, regardless of fault or logic sometimes. Marriage stopped this for us. Because we both know we'd have been miserable apart.

Sorry for the length, but I felt this would best answer your question and clarify my points. The detail was kind of necessary to adequately express the dilemmas we all face in long-term relationships (married or not) and the choices that must be made.

I think marriage is important because I know it to be personally.

^ I appreciate you sharing your experience. I don't actually have the experience of a long relationship to draw upon. My longest was around 3 years. And honestly, I feel it ended because my partner gave up on it too soon. But we have been close friends ever since and he has never thought it was a good idea to get back together, so when I consider that I think it was best that it ended.

With my most recent relationship, I stayed in it too long, because there was the pull of "but I'm depressed so I can't tell if this is actually a toxic relationship, or if it is just toxic right now because of my condition". I loved her so I stuck with it. It was mostly her who ended it eventually (similar reasons to the relationship in the previous paragraph), but I feel such relief now because I'm feeling better and can see that it actually was a toxic relationship, regardless of my mental health.

So what I've taken from the experiences I have had is that I do try to make relationships work if I feel that it is a good idea (and sometimes even when I don't realise it's not!). If I'd been more clear headed I would have seen that my last relationship was not a healthy one for me, and thank goodness we weren't married, as that would have made it even harder to get out of. We weren't, as people, at the core, compatible. And I think compatibility can actually change with time, too, so what was a healthy relationship for twenty years could become a toxic one later on, due to people and needs changing. I certainly want and need a different sort of person in my life to who I wanted and needed 15 years ago. I really hope that I find someone who is compatible with for the next 50 years (rough patches included), but I really don't think I could ever see into the future accurately enough to sign something that says I believe I've found that.

I know I changed your wording slightly. I did that because "the right thing to do" is kind of fuzzy and for some people it could mean "as long as it feels good", while for others it might mean "until there is violence" or something. So I really would want a better wording than "the right thing to do", because otherwise I wouldn't know exactly what the other person think is the right thing or not.

Also, even if "the right thing to do" might mean making best efforts to make it work, the wording itself gives no clue about that, which a wedding vow would.



I agree to that. Marriage is neither necessary nor enough to ensure it lasts for life.

Yeah. It's deliberately fuzzy, so that it allows for rational, case-by-case consideration when the time comes, rather than an absolute promise beforehand of exactly what I would do in a situation I know nothing about yet.

Pat Robertson, a preacher, created a firestorm by saying it was OK to divorce a spouse because they had Alzheimer's.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marie-mar ... 71953.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson

I've read many responses discussing the illogical points of marriage, or what marriage actually represents in this post. But marriage doesn't have to be some big party to show off to people, it doesn't have to adhere to many social norms, two people could simply get a marriage at the local courthouse in an hour.

Regardless.... Sure marriage is a religious and social construct, and in many cases jumped into too early, hence the large divorce rates. Yes to some it seems illogical, but are we really basing every aspect of our existence on logic? Can any of you say you've never indulged in something that logically was not necessary or appropriate? You don't need to eat pizza that night, logically it's unhealthy for you and leads to future problems, so it would be pointless/ senseless to indulge, when you can have healthy vegetables instead... Do you REALLY need that nice looking pair of pants? Why not simply save money and buy the cheapest pair available?

We make choices based on emotion on a regular basis, in almost every aspect of our lives, from hobbies to impulses. If it means something to you, to openly pledge yourself to another in the eyes of the law and people in your lives, if that concept, regardless of its validity, brings you pleasure, does that make it pointless or wrong? Or even illogical for that matter? What's illogical about doing something that makes you happy? There are many benefits to it, and even if there aren't, is it so pointless to allow some form of emotion to influence your life? Balance should be important as well shouldn't it? What about your partner? Perhaps willing to bind yourself to him or her legally offers that person a sense of security and appreciation not otherwise achievable, if you cared about your partner does it not seem logical you would take an action to please them, even if the reason seems nonsensical? If you aren't willing to do that for your partner, due to some desire to refuse certain social constructs, or because you are worried he or she might divorce you and take some of your possessions, should you be with that person anyways?

Marriage can be a grand gesture, or a simple act taken place in the shadows. It can be logical or irrational, positive or negative, like any aspect of life. The point of marriage, is known to those who desire it, and those who don't, well I'm sure there are many comforts in your life others find pointless, it doesn't mean they are does it? All in all this discussion is as meaningless as asking what's the point of popcorn at a movie theater, it's a matter of preference known only to the individual...

Wrong. My cousin has been happily not married to his partner with kids for many years.

The idea that a ceremony or a legal commitment equals commitment is nonsense.

I'm opposed to the legal concept of marriage and the conflation with cultural practices.

I'm not bothered by cultural practices, so long as it is not mixed up in law.

And why are you opposed to the legal aspect? Just saying someone is happy isn't the reason of why they don't want the legal commitment. And doesn't common law kick in there somewhere? Kansas I believe is 7 yrs. Unless he doesn't want the kids to have his last name?

It's an absolute commitment, which I think is why many people do want to get married. Well, that or tradition. It's a sign of caring. Damned if I honestly believed it was a good move to take, though. I personally think it paves the way for disaster, the deconstruction of a relationship. I remember reading that, on average, marriage lasts about seven years or so. I know marriage can work, I'm not saying it can't, but I doubt it's really for the majority of people.

I'd take caution.