Why do almost all 'incels' blame their situation on looks?

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I don't really see how you find purity culture responsible for guys bitter for not getting laid. In purity culture, being a virgin is a virtue, not shame.

Sounds like it's 'Mercanizing over there quite a bit.

The way ThinkingApe puts it, the US was the only place where people would ask a person such a profound question as 'How are you?', let alone demand a speedy tight-lipped response of 'Grate grate! I'm swwellll!'. I can kinda see his point, it's almost analogous to 'What's 2 + 2?' '5!' 'Great! Just making sure you're still obedient to the party!', although I think here the question is more of a sub-in for 'You're not going to rob or rape me right?' to which the canned 'Grate! I'm swell!' is an answer in the affirmative.

Don't get me wrong, if a culture is shifting to a state of lower trust I get that such bizarre handshakes are needed to some degree as fiat short term contracts, but this doesn't seem like it's a habit that we want to be unconscious of the purposes behind or the reasons why it's going through strange contortions or why the cult of positivity is such a big thing. It seems to signal that we're accruing sociological problems and at best slapping duct tape and band-aids on them rather than taking any serious shot at fixing them.

If you read the book - it is basically Origen 101 (talked about women as "bags of pus" before castrating himself). Back in the 4th century.

Does the book author also talk like that about women?
I still don't get how you link Origen's misogyny (or what appears misogynic to today's reader) to current day frustrations about not having sex.

It's more like the Incels were looking for excuses for their involuntary celibacy, stumbled upon Origen, and found in it their reasons for cause.

It's a cart-before-the-horse thing.

Do you mean it's just looking for a scapegoat to blame? Then I guess Origen is not better or worse than anything or anyone. You can't get laid because of Jengis Khan and Captain Picard. And that annoying miniature pintscher your neighbor owns.

Yes, that seems to be a common behavior among Incels -- fail first and find something to blame later (anything but themselves, that is), when they should work on improving themselves first before attempting to find a date.Maybe that's why the current Administration blames the previous Administration for so many things...

I've identified with various subcultures to an extent, but far from completely. I tend to be drawn to newly-forming fringe groups within a given subculture. In my experience, newly-forming fringe groups tended to be dominated by people who I now think were probably autistic or otherwise neurodivergent, whereas, once the group got more established, it tended to be taken over by people who I now think were probably NTs. Sometimes the founders then moved on the create new fringe groups.


Yes, but it takes time to get to know a potential love interest, and the easiest way to get to know a potential love interest is through mutual friends, or at least mutual acquaintances. And, if you don't fit well into mainstream society, then the easiest way to find a network of mutual friends, or at least mutual acquaintances, is via oddball subcultures.


This is something many of us have NOT experienced, as has been pointed out by various people here.


Well, your daughter is genetically similar enough to you that you can read her natural body language, and she also talked at home, so you knew her very well.


I think that claiming it's "not" a friendship is far more confusing. Below is an online dictionary definition of the word "friend":


The usual meaning of "friend" is definition #1. Note that NONE of these definitions (other than the social media one) say anything about the method of initiating the friendship. Note the absence of any definition along the lines of "a person who becomes attached to another via gossip, unfocused chit chat, and talk about feelings."

You realise that not everyone who fails is entirely to blame for their own faliure, right? They're mostly if not wholly responsible for ensuring they succeed, but other people and factors can sabotage your success.

It would be unfair to blame someone who is autistic for having underdeveloped social skills, for instance. Sure, it's up to them to improve, but that doesn't mean it's their fault that their social skills aren't as good as everyone else's. This is especially true if they've already taken measures to improve their social skills that haven't worked out.

It just seems like you're trying to put all of the blame on people who chronically struggle with love and dating for the position that they're in, which isn't fair. While most bear at least some responsibility, there's a myriad of factors that could affect their success in love and dating that were/are beyond their control. Yes, they're responsible for rectifying the problem but that doesn't mean they're entirely to blame for the problem existing in the first place.

More to do with social class, education level, being disabled and lack of social network that are hard to change or improve.
The comments of advice from keyboard warriors are usually condescending, arrogance, insults that only rile people up and add no value. It is best to ignore advice that is negative and is hostile. Only constructive comments should be encouraged, and insults, negativity should be censored.

To RDOS: Please see my reply to you here (as well as my reply to you here in this thread).

I don't know about Fnord but I was refering to blaming Origen and purity culture for development on incel problems.

I'm totally aware that guys who can't get date are often unable to change their situation themselves. I'm sympathetic to the struggle, even if I can't really do much about it. I just can't understand how some ancient Bible commenter would be linked to the problem. If you can explain it, I'm all ears.

My reply was meant for just Fnord. I probably should have removed some if the quotes.

That's my impression too. It can go the other way too. When some subculture falls out of popularity the people that stay (or enroll despite it being unpopular) will often be NDs. One such is folk music and dancing, which is not very popular among NTs and have a lot of odd people.



I don't think we disagree on how to best meet potential partners. It's more about how we go about to identify them and build a connection. You seem to prefer talking and making friends (which I consider NT ways), while I would check them out with the eye contact game and observe them from a distance. I think both methods have merits for different people. If you don't form intimate connections with friends then using the friend path might not work. If you cannot handle the natural (in my opinion) ND communication then the "distance" method might not work.

I think regardless of the method used, the biggest problem is how to make things advance to a more ordinary romantic relationship.



That's long been my opinion too, but given that I have been unable to identify ND specific body language quirks, I nowadays tend to find it unlikely. For instance, there are no variants of facial expressions that NDs use, rather all of the facial expressions seem to be learnt by NDs. While stims have some communicative function, it's very limited and many stims are non-specific. And none of the potential body language mechanisms can handle more complex things that can only be expressed with talking.

So, either we take the position that spoken language is some super-ability we acquired in a very short timeframe (less than a few million years), which seems to be a highly unlikely position given the complexity of it, or talking is just one of many possible ways to get complex thoughts through. We already know that talking can be substituted for sign language and writing, and so why can't it also work with electromagnetic fields? Actually, it does work with electromagnetic fields since we can type to each other here, so the issue more becomes if animals & humans have some electromagnetic device that can be used for communication.

The idea that a man must look sexy in order to attract women is a relatively recent development. PUA (which is a predecessor to the Red Pill, MGTOW, and Incels) used to say that looks are mostly irrelevant in a man. As long as you know the right communication methods, you'll meet women easily. And the PUA books taught those methods. Even so, I went in for a plastic surgery consultation, after a waitress told her colleague that my eyes were creepy. So that idea isn't entirely true.

Later on, after the Red Pill came about, that changed. Newer materials started saying that looks are what matters the most in attracting women. The Incels must have read the more recent materials. Hence, they blame everything on their bad looks.

Speaking as a person who took college courses in electromagnetic field theory and worked as an electronic engineer in my twenties and early thirties:

As far as I am aware, there is no evidence that the human brain is capable of transmitting an electromagnetic signal strong enough to be detected by another human brain, nor am I aware of any evidence that the human brain (or any other part of the human nervous system) contains anything like an antenna that could be used to transmit or receive such a signal between brains. Of course there's lots of electrical activity within our brains. But sending a signal between two people's brains would require an antenna and some means of amplifying the signal before sending it. Without this, even if you and I were standing right next to each other, any electromagnetic signal emitted by your brain would be completely drowned out, within my brain, by all the electrical signaling going on within my brain. All the more so would it be drowned out if you and I were any further apart than right next to each other.

Given the large amount of studies that have been done of the electrical activity in the human brain and nervous system, including autistic brains, I think it would have been noticed by now if the human brain or nervous system contained anything like an antenna and an amplifier.

Assuming you're telling the truth about your experiences as you understand them, my guess would be that both you and the women you've managed to establish a "mind-to-mind communication link" with are just people with excellent intuition about people (or at least people of your own kind) whom you have gotten to know very well.

I see no reason to believe that all or most autistic people, or all or most neurodivergent people, have a similar talent, although it might be possible that people of your particular kind are a significant minority subtype of autistic people.


I wouldn't think of it as "NT ways," given that the kind of talking I do is very different from the kind of talking NTs usually do.


How does your version of the eye contact game differ from the NT version described in How to Flirt With Eye Contact (WikiHow), or in various other pages that come up when you Google "flirt eye contact"?