I think I dropped the ball...

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So I made another thread about my experiments with dating. Things were going so well, or at least I thought.

We were on I think our 4th or 5th date. I go over to her place, we watch a movie, get comfortable, and start making out. I really liked it, but I didn't go any further. I just stopped. I don't know why, I don't know what stopped me, nervousness I suppose. Looking back, she was probably frustrated, but I didn't realize it at the time.

Now on the most recent date we had I could just tell she wasn't into it. I was trying to kiss, hug, etc. and get close but even with my low nonverbal IQ I could tell she just wasn't feeling it. She says she needs more time to determine if she wants to be in a relationship and needs to get to know me better, when last time she pretty much couldn't keep her hands off me.

I think what happened is this: The time before, when we were making out, was a perfect opportunity to get more physical. She saw me as a man then. But when I (pardon ladies) pussied out, I think she immediately stopped seeing me as a man and potential sexual partner and as a friend.

I think I finally get it when people say "women don't like nice guys" or "women don't like p*****s". I didn't act on the urge that was clearly there and now I'm friendzoned. I'm not really sure what to do, but I feel very pissed at myself right now.

I guess you could say that if she would drop me that quick then she wasn't for me anyways (I'm AS she's NT). But I'm learning now that women are f*****g confusing, and I need to stop being so nice and considerate.

/rant

comments, replies, advice?

I feel extra bad because she was so unique...we were so compatible in our worldviews. f**k it's going to be so hard to find someone as open-minded, cool, and beautiful as her now, especially in the South. I f****d up, I haven't felt this depressed in ages...

Hello,

How are you so sure it has something to do with you, the way you acted the last time?

Maybe, it's just that this time, she wasn't feeling like it, as simple as that?

Women are not robots nor dolls, no more than men, and their desire may be not as strong everytime.

Here's what I think. She may have seemed compatible in some ways but I think she wasn't in other and perhaps more fundamental ways. Seems like she was unwilling to accept your anxiety about sexuality. If she really liked you, she should've been willing to help you through it. But maybe you didn't communicate about it, so she just saw you as being disinterested. Or maybe she just didn't know how to deal with it. Either way looks like a fundamental incompatibility. I don't think you could've done anything in that timeframe to change that.

Did you communicate about it at all, or were you too embarrassed or worried how she'd react?

Last edited by edgewaters on 07 Jun 2012, 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

I feel like it's probably me. Any time there's a social f**k-up, it's usually me cause I'm a f*****g aspie. Why would she be all over me and then the next time not even think to kiss me when I greet her? That doesn't make any sense at all.

I feel she wouldn't backtrack for no reason. She told me she's been put into pressure situations by guys in the past (she's had to turn down marriage) and doesn't want to be put on the spot like that. She also says she has a lot of stuff going on with wanting to move and get a new job. But how do I know that's not a front? How do I know deep inside she's not telling herself "this guy's a p****" and stopping because of that?

I told her I have AS. In fact that's kind of how we met and got conversation started. I think she knows what it's all about. I told her that sometimes I need things spelled out for me, and that it's better to be genuine than subtle. She seemed to be willing to accept that. As the night went on on I think the 3rd date I got really comfortable and started revealing a LOT about myself. Too much, I was brutally honest. About me being bullied before, about never having a real relationship. I don't know why I mentioned this.

As far as explicit sexual stuff, no I don't think I really communicated about it. I thought it was implied by me already mentioning my nonverbal difficulties. I remember her asking "what are you thinking about?" and not knowing how to respond. I didn't know at the time if it was flirty or not and how to respond. Looking back, it was probably a flirty thing.

I think you might be right. Maybe she liked me, but just not enough to have to deal with all aspects of my personality. My brutal honesty, my tendency to go on monologues, my awkwardness with flirting and sex. So it is...

Not really. It implies that you have trouble reading signals and cues, but it doesn't really imply that you would be comfortable with making out one time and then awkward the next time. She probably thought that hurdle was cleared. Awkward is not distinguishable from uncomfortable. People are fragile too, they assume the worst about themselves. She might've thought she screwed up, who knows. I tend to be pretty awkward with sexuality but I'm totally up front about it. I'm not very good at it but I do enjoy it, and I'm up front about that too. Those things aren't going to change in any reasonable timeframe, so if they can't handle it, there's no sense wasting everyone's time and it's much less embarrassing to just be upfront and get it over with than to get further along and have it come out some other way.

That being said, I've never really 'dated', it all sounds so rushed. With the exception of one casual encounter, everyone I've ever gotten involved with (which frankly isn't many) is someone I've known well beforehand, and vice-versa. I haven't really ever bothered to work on being more assertive sexually, I'm just not that motivated really. I'm pretty happy just being single when I am, so I'm always just ... here's what it is, take it or leave it. Doesn't bother me much when it doesn't work out, so the risk factor isn't really there.

All I know is this, being nice was not the problem. People enjoy other people being nice to them.
Could it have been a lack of displayed sexual agency? maybe, but being sexual or assertive isn't the opposite of being nice

True. But when you can't read the cues properly, the thing that seems most considerate is to ensure you don't violate them eg err on the side of caution. If you put your arm around someone and they feel violated, that's a terrible feeling if you're sensitive to imposing yourself on people.

I agree. It's good to be respectful of other's boundaries.
It just makes me sad to see guys say things like girls don't like nice guys so I'm going to not be nice. Confidence and kindness are a great combination. Not everyone is confident, and it's tough (ik), but being unkind is a poor simulacrum of confidence.

Did you know that even Freud said, "What do women want?"

I suppose he didn't only say but scream those words and was on the brink of a nervous breakdown then. Seriously, as Freud himself couldn't figure them out, what can you realistically expect from average men?

As an NT who has KIND of been in her situation, I wouldn't say that all is lost.

Firstly, she may have felt rejected the first time around, and be worried that it might happen again- you may be thinking that your signals are very clear to her, and that it's obvious what you want from her, or that you are interested in her, but she may not be picking up on any of that, and be just as worried about what you think of her, as you are about what she thinks of you.

Just because you have explained that you are AS does NOT mean that she 'gets it'- it has taken me a LOT of time and explaining to understand just what that means and how it impacts someone's behaviour (and I STILL don't fully understand), so never assume that she can apply what you have told her in theory, to how you act in RL.

As other posts say, I don't think it's a question of being 'nice'- you didn't stop last time, because you were being 'nice', and frankly anyone who gives up on a relationship because the intimacy didn't go as far as they wanted after a 5th date surely can't actually be looking for a relationship?!

You haven't, by the sounds of things, made a huge error- these kinds of mishaps happen all the time at the beginning of ANY kind of relationship, so if the relationship is irreparable because of it, then I would say that it is definitely a relationship that wouldn't have gone anywhere far anyway, and NOT because you messed things up, but simply because it wasn't right for either of you.

Keep flirting her, keep it sexual.

It's like the blind leading the blind. Well socially blind anyway. Look not to be disrespectful at all everyone's well meaning attempts but I have no freaking idea what advice to give, or what may have happened. Why don't you ask her? You never know she might give you an honest answer.

1) Might not know, but if you read the thread you could know and make a suggestion on what the OP could do.
2) Just because you don't know what to say to this or do not have experience with this does not invalidate everyone else in the thread. We aren't all copies of the same person and all have our own things to say. Even if they may not be the right things, we have the right to share advice in what is mostly an advice board.

EDIT: OP, basically something was going good, and it messed up on that chance to get physical. Revert back to how you were before things got messy, and the next time things are getting hot between you two don't back down unless she makes it clear she isn't keen. If she decides not to date you any more, don't worry and move on. Take it down to having different boundaries and needs that don't easily match up.

What I don't understand is why, as an NT woman, would you reject a guy outright just because he didn't go all the way with you sexually one time when you wanted it? ESPECIALLY a guy who you KNOW has nonverbal communication difficulties? Is it because you didn't really have those feelings to begin with but you were pretending? Or did you have those feelings, but then lost them when the making out didn't go further? Or better yet, do you STILL have those feelings, but are just confused and need some space to figure things out?

You mention fear of rejection. It seems to me if anything, she has the opposite, a fear of commitment. She KNOWS I'm into her. I've told her that. So why would you be afraid of being rejected by someone that's obviously pursuing you romantically, if anyone rejects, it's gonna be you! I don't get it...

She said "I didn't want to drag you down something". I'm still not sure what this means.



I think it might be too late for that. I texted her (quote) "we can hang out I'm fine with that" even though she knows and I know that I'm NOT fine with that. I mean friendship is good, I need more friends in my life, but I don't know about with her. As a man that is attracted to her I just don't know if I can reconcile a friendship with those feelings. What am I supposed to do, flirt while we're just platonically "hanging out"? How do I know if that's what she wants? It will just put more unnecessary layers of awkwardness and pressure on her.