Roissy's 16 Commandments

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Actually since I'm thinking about it I think it would be helpful to lay out the caveats point by point:

Easy enough, especially if you've ever been stabbed once in your life - which is practically anyone. Then again, the window of saying it too quickly or too late is rather narrow.


That's great if you can see something you like just enough to bother with it but not. Its also fine if your mind is wired to enjoy conflict. Otherwise, yes you can still do it - making messes for the sake of making them is very tiring and rewardless work. You also have to be a bit of an inward Bud Bundy and light up like a twelve year old every time you see a pair, otherwise you won't have the poise to pull this out of thin air. If life's been complex and you aren't accustomed to thinking at the the sexual level of a twelve year old its easy to come up short in that area, you can try but it'll likely ring rather unnatural.


I don't think many guys here are tripping up on this one.


I'd say you don't let her walk on you and make her meet you half way. Being and manufacturing contrarianism for the sake of it or having to deliberately make a problem when what she's suggesting is the same thing you thought - it really has to be a personal hobby.


Where its practical. If someone starts jabbing you because you were making plans and just by the outlaying they can criticize you for saying 3.6 words to her 3 - please smack you're friend for being a stooge.


This really involves rethinking the whole way of socialize. If you just like to have fun and cut loose, talk to people for the sake of talking to people - you're failing in this category. The point is sex, thus games have to be played from the beginning and you're conversation with members of the opposite sex (aside from friends and friend's girlfriends) then takes on a very artificial and straight-jacketed set of rules and codifications. The point being - getting with someone, anyone, has to be worth that much to you. If you're horny enough that you could change your tastes and music and even religion full tilt if it meant better luck - more power to ya. If not, you probably won't go this route easily.


Again, you have to enjoy this kind of thing and have your motivations bent on that-first. That and explaining to your girlfriend/fiance that you're just 'playing the game' for her if you get caught up to could be a little sticky - then again that goes to the 'running out in front of busses' and such with point XI to prove your a man' type of thing, paying the price for getting caught is one of the many bonuses of agreeing to play the game.


This is another one that I think most aspies know from experience that society treats those who are aware and repentant of mistakes to this extent terribly.


I have trouble thinking of many unsuccessful guys who would say "You know, I know exactly what women love to feel, love to think about, it resonates with me and I can reciprocate anytime I want but....meh...I just decided not to bother with it". We're built differently, and it seems like life experiences as well can shift one's ability even further away from us being emotive/tactile beings - I meet plenty of women even going through the same thing. Yes, I suppose this is a health check - men and women who've been through enough to have dried up somewhat are relegated by the alphas of both genders to the beta heap for poor genetics/endurance.


This one I really have to shake my head at. Yes, gawking is bad. On the other hand, when you take this circuitry out without it being a problem of getting too much of something and wearing out your tastebuds - you end up with the same problem even worse. In my late teens early 20's I vowed not to let my hormones run my integrity t through the grinder anymore, I did devalue my hormonal reaction to women's beauty - and ever since then I've probably had the natural pull to get all of maybe four phone numbers. Point being it it looks great on paper but the results can very easily be extreme pickiness and reduction of your sexual body language - may not worsen things if you had no luck with the opposite sex to begin with but will add absolutely no success either if you succeed at anything more than just pretending your not interested.


I guess this works as a 'fly in front of the hawks to prove your manhood'. On one level yes, this makes sense. On another level - life is incredibly long in the worst ways when things like this work out badly. I have a buddy who won't be driving for another few years, sport-bike related issues, I really think a lot of that comes from him giving in to this kind of pressure.

It would be great if we have absolutely nothing else to live for but procreation. The atheist/theist debate still hasn't been settled though and I'm not even sure that most atheists would gladly wreck their lives just to get some seed off in the right direction. I know - we've become INCREDIBLY weak and cowardly as a society when making healthy babies has stopped being our highest ideal that we'd throw ourselves from cliffs for or live in shabby studio appartments penning six child support checks a month while trying to tell ourselves that getting around that much was worth having no future because we did well by Darwin.


Not entirely - you still want to be well rounded and if your strengths happen to be WOW, Everquest, and Guildwars - that needs work. Fortunately I think almost anyone has it in their domain to broaden their personal horizons at least a little bit farther than that; skiing, soccer, martial arts, fire arms, auto repair, kyte surfing, there are a myriad of 'masculine' activities a guy can add to his list.


If you're 'out to play' as it was said in Ghosts of Girlfriends Past then great - you're letting them know your intent off the top. Generally though, if you're looking for a long term relationship, you're coming from a slightly different angle and if that comes out of you abruptly - it'll just be weird and great for an awkward moment if she notices it as deliberate.


I think anyone can do this but - the qualitative difference is who's already learned and who hasn't. You really are expected to hit the ground running in this area and they don't exactly have wooden dummies or Yipman forms to make up the difference.

If you're with someone who you actually care about or who you think is sensible enough that you can trust you're judgement - you're in trouble. If you're with someone you could care less about enough to where this comes naturally - you're also in trouble because what you have frankly sucks. In fact this is assurance that if you want to have much authentic communication in the relationship at all you're not in good shape.


Understood and agreed - if you can't be your best self and stand up for your own decisions you won't be attractive.


Please understand that I'm not endorsing guy's rights to whine, nor am I saying that women are tyrants - men and women are both f'd up. Period. What I'm really getting at though - guy's shouldn't be flatulating themselves over this, the world is a little too messed up and there's too few ways to end up happy no matter what you do.

That's sketchy though, as in you have to knock on wood and hope culture doesn't reach her. That's part of why I very rarely had any desire to date girls who were here from other countries - unless they already had very strong personalities it seemed like I'd much rather see where their heads were at after they'd already been Americanized rather than trying to take advantage of that sort of window.

I agree, for instance Neil Straus who wrote the game books is now in a serious relationship and his new interest is in survivalism and toughening up as he feels ashamed of being an capitalist urban sophisticate who can't hunt or get in touch with nature.

BTW, I might not have thrown as much positive back at you as I had wished. I really appreciate you sharing this link, I'll have to read more about it tonight and see what its all about. I know some people are very much on the right track with this kind of thing and for your description it sounds promising.


If we really want to get material about this won't is won't - can't really doesn't matter at all past that point because nothing can happen any other way aside from how it does, won't is simply a more complex form of can't and thus can't becomes redundant.

This may explain why I get along better with guys overseas than here in America. American men tend to come off having this sense of self entitlement and expect too much from women. It's like living in Stepford Country.

I'd actually have to offer that this could indicate something entirely different. Perhaps in these countries pop-culture hasn't thrown the genders into all out war with gender/identity politics being pressed down upon them the way it has been here. With the weight we have on our shoulders in the west its really no wonder that both genders should be embittered, people are barely allowed to just be 'human' and enjoy kinship on that level.

I am in shock, absolute shock, and that is after reading some of your other offensive posts.

I live in a community as part of a married couple, and am surrounded by married couples. All I know at this point in my life, pretty much, are married couples. I know their stoires, too; how they met, and so on. I've had ample opportunity to observe how the relationships balance.

I know only one Roissy type. He's divorced. Even if I was single, I wouldn't go near that man with a ten foot pole. Not for a relationship.

You are just wrong about how women think and react. You are wrong about what they want and how they build relationships. You haven't met anyone I seem to know, that is for absolute sure.

You are also wrong about the men I know and work with. You've made incorrect assumptions about how they have landed their women, and how they live inside their relationships, what makes them happy, and how they act. I know businessmen, top Pixar execs, retired pro-athletes, chefs, general contractors, doctors, engineers, artists, and more - a pretty broad spectrum gets involved at the schools, and in the community, broadening my horizons by leaps and bounds. You not only slander women with these opinions, you slander them.

I'm really starting to wonder if this is what happens for people who are 'outside the box', stuck having to figure out how to pick up the pieces when life really hasn't thrown them what they needed. A lot of even the NT guys I know who are macks have in common - they're largely atypicals, super-NT atypicals but atypicals nonetheless. For whatever reason they've been left to their own devices to fend for themselves, life typically isn't friendly to that and when they can't influence the world to fulfill their needs on a more wholesome track and - after enough agonizing with that one and too much time to sit and think - they start counting the list of things they haven't tried. Almost all of the advice it seems - guys needing to toughen up, do edgy things, work on themselves ad infinitum, only seem to exist for people who were expelled from society's insular core. In there you can be the most nimbish, soft, wholesome looking guy and things still work out. Outside of that setting reality seems like it works much differently and it also seems like - if anything - a lot of people in that protective bubble have a knack for keeping themselves on the periphery if not almost invisible to those who are on the outside of it.

The more I think about that one though I'd actually put that up for a topic all its own. Societal dynamics, especially those that really seem to guide and control the red tape of life, fascinate me and its one of those areas where I feel like the more accurately I can learn to understand what's going on at that level the better the chance I might be able to... well... save myself from the wreckage heap one day.

Also, DWs list of succesful men sound middle aged. Roissy's stuff is what young women demand. people are more laid back and less game playing in the older age.

No, sorry, just because the men I know are, now, middle aged, doesn't mean the basics have really changed. I know the kids coming up, and they aren't THAT different from the way we were. Things change a little, but never nearly as much as the young like to believe when they throw away the advice from us older folks saying, "that isn't how it is anymore."

Actually, it is.

All that changes are a few superficialities. Where to meet, how many dates before you do X, who pays for what ... that sort of thing. The real stuff - that makes real relationships - no changes at all.

I think one important thing for everyone to remember is that not everyone is meant to marry. Just because we are all pretty much socialized to want marriage, doesn't mean it is the best thing for each of us, or that it is meant to happen for each of us. I know, easy for me to say, now that I AM married, but it wasn't until I actually accepted that as a single that I started to be ready to get married. For me, that was a necessary hurdle to cross, to learn to live life for me and not with the goal of meeting my "better half." I couldn't have brought half of the emotional and social assets into this marriage that I did without that.

My older sister will mostly likely never marry. Two of my aunts never did. But all 3 have, fortunately, escaped from the pattern I've seen on these boards of trying to figure out what went wrong and have just accepted, "it wasn't in the cards for me." My sister has a full life. She owns a home, she belongs to clubs, she has traveled to Russian and China, she hikes and skis and camps and all sorts of things. Shoot, getting time scheduled in with her is HARD! Ultimately, I suspect that regardless of the many sides of her that seriously wanted marriage and a family, there was another side of her that didn't want to have to deal with the give and take of a relationship. She turned all her serious suitors into good friends; that few extra inches of distance she just seemed to need. After 30 years of doing that, she is well able to acknowledge that SHE does it, albeit subconsciously, not them.

Many men do similar things, with different patterns and labels, but all with the same subconscious goal: keep someone else out of the parts of my life I don't want to share.

When relationships aren't going right, you do have to ask if you are doing something you don't realize you are doing. An old boyfriend of mine, after we broke up, and were in a friendly stage, pointed out to me some of the things I did to keep distance. It wasn't easy to hear at the time, but he was right. I was doing those things.

The second thing is to understand that even with doing everything right, and actually wanting a relationship on both a conscious and subconscious level, that maybe the right person just isn't in your world. That does happen. Great people open to love can and do spend their whole lives single. I have no idea why.

So ... you build your life for you, and stop wondering about what you don't have and whose fault it is. Even if it never gets a relationship, it most certainly will make you happier.

Yeah, I think I may be on a very similar path. Although I'm quite certain that I'll make the most of whatever comes to pass its still a push/pull experience.

I only figured out what is going on after I became successful and had time to study history. It is from history that I realized that modern culture is rotten to the core, much like the late Roman Empire was. Average people adapt to their culture. The "Good Germans" who accepted Nazism were average people who simply adapted. These are the same people who DW_a_mom is talking about. These people behave well or badly depending on the culture in which they are in. And since they are in a rotten culture, their behavior is rotten. But there are some men with integrity who refuse to adapt to rotten cultures. Examples include Christ, Martin Luther, and other spiritual leaders. So please think about which path you prefer, adapting to a rotten culture to gain acceptance, or having integrity and standing up for yourself.

i believe you are actually advocating that we return to a male-dominated state, back to the old ways of unequal distribution of power. therefore your nazi analogy is still weak.

well, why wouldn't a person want to return to the previous state of power, after he has been reduced to mere equality?

of course, in the old days we had lower life expectancy, inferior technology, less education and a weak social state, among other things.

sarcasm: but those were the good old days, weren't they? the good old days when women could be kept down and rarely allowed to think for themselves. /sarcasm

You have got to be kidding me. People who volunteer in their communities, raise well adjusted kids, are generous to people less fortunate than they are, never hurt anyone ... they are rotten because they are in what you think is a rotten culture? WHAT is so rotten about our culture? There are rotten aspects, like racism and prejudice, but all these people I mentioned actively fight that sort of thing. Are you suggesting that just because they found a way to be happy in a culture that embraces feminism that they must be rotten? Or because they have the audacity to get along with me? Really? You really think we can equate a time and place that is trying to embrace diversity and acceptance with the culture of the "good Germans" when the Nazi's were taking over and planning the destruction of another race? I remain in shock, absolute shock, that anyone can think or say such things.

If we're going to examine culture I'd put a divider between feminism and the Marxist/progressive attempts to hijack it to their own ends. What you're talking about is distinctly the later .