Male disposability in life & dating

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Chronos
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15 Oct 2017, 9:28 pm

sly279 wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Chronos wrote:

SilverBoltsisWmax wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Aspie1 wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

Anyway. Would one really get satisfaction from a life of working a low paid entry level job?

hurtloam wrote:

I don't think the answer is to separate ourselves more. We should be finding ways, men and women, to work together and find common ground and ways to get along with each other better.

I mean how can we become more respectful of each other. Obviously young men are feeling worthless and unloved. that's not good for society. We have a big problem. Being cold towards one another isn't the answer.

A "nice" job is often necessary to keep up with a girlfriend's or wife's demands. Big house, fancy car, engagement ring, jewelry for the anniversary, birthday presents, pricey Valentine's Day dinners, etc, etc, etc. Not to mention, high-paying jobs are often pretty stressful. If a man doesn't have anyone pushing all those demands and doesn't seek out romantic partners, a high-paid job becomes borderline unnecessary. A simple, low-stress job is just enough to maintain a man's lifestyle: a small but comfortable house, an inexpensive reliable car, and some extra cash for weekend outings.

I think we as a society already crossed the point of no return; the relationship between sexes at large is too damaged to repair in one generation's lifetime. Because my generation is basically out of luck, I'm choosing to keep a safe distance and watch the circus unfold. Just like Guy Montag in the closing scene of "Fahrenheit 451", where he watches his city get carpet-bombed, while standing in the safety of the countryside, talking to Book People.

Oh, and for the records, I have women friends who think highly of me. I just refuse to have anything to do with romantic or sexual relationships. In which case, I can't help but snicker at young men falling over themselves trying to find a sex partner or a girlfriend. Even though I was just like that 15 years ago.

Oh I don't doubt you guys are quite nice in real life. I used to work with a red pill guy and he's lovely.i really like him. I just feel that he must have been really hurt at some point to have had to delve into such a separatist ideology. I had to unfollow him on Facebook because I couldn't take the negativity of the things he liked.

The existence of women hurt men. Men who believe in the law of equivalent exchange are hurt by what women represent each day. The thing that makes men get upset is not that women control the power, it's that so many disregard the fact they do, as if they don't because they don't care or are actually that stupid.

Men see how other men who can easily sway women act, and cannot understand how women fall prey to this over and over, because logically it makes zero sense. But again....just goes back to people being generally stupid. I would go so far as to say, no woman should ever be unmarried past 25-30 unless by direct choice for a strong reason. Every woman who isn't and says it's because of men just isn't smart enough to understand her own power maybe even her own previous power, as women's power can be argued goes down with age as a rapid rate based off of choices, genetics etc.

I've existed in male dominated environments and have had male friends almost exclusively and have been rejected by every man I have asked out, and have never had a serious marriage proposal. So my 37 years of experience being female gives me a different perspective on the matter than your 24 years of being male.

I find that a lot of men who struggle socially have this idea that all women have all men in the palm of their hands, figuratively, and all men are so desperate that they would take any woman who showed interest in them, and that's really not the case. The average man has standards, just like the average woman. There are women the average man has no interest in dating, or may have an interest in dating, but no interest in marrying. I cannot just magically snap my fingers and make the man of my choice, or any man for that matter, marry me.

Yes this is very true. I'm in the same situation.

Men don't see what is really going on in women's lives. They just assume and we are meant to take their assumptions as fact.

In saying that I don't doubt their tales of meeting materialistic women and when they tell me of the horrible things women have said to them I believe them.

But they need to believe us women when we tell them we don't have a golden ticket either

It's funny how they say 'women can choose whoever they want and men have to dance for them.' But all my single female friends who constantly get overlooked for someone 'better' feel the same way, that men get to choose anyone they want and we have to constantly jump through hoops for the men. And even then we're never good enough and I know so many women who have just given up.

They are sick of have their self esteem crushed and they're sick of being treated like they're unappealing. They don't want their self worth to be measured by a man. And these are clever, down to earth, non-materialistic women. Not gold diggers or harpies.

Would your friends dat a non college educated man working part time at min wage? If not it’s their standards that keep them single not that menarent interested in them. I here so many women b***h about being single and how no men will date them or how there’s no men or where are all the men, but they won’t date men like me. So I don’t have pity for them anymore then I would someone who says they dehydrated and going die while I’m offering them water cause they won’t drink water and only want soda.
I’m single cause women reject me left and right not because I don’t deem half the female population good enough to date me.

I don't deny that women tend to want financially stable men.

Of the women I know personally though...
1. Met her husband when he was a poor art student and she was a waitress.
2. She has a masters in engineering, he never went to college. He had a median low income when they met, now she supports him and is fine with this.
3. Her boyfriend was her former client. He has no job but is independently wealthy. She still works because she likes to.
4. Met her husband at a bar. I don't think he earns much more than she does.
5. She met her husband in college.
6. Her husband is a freelance graphics artist. She comes from an affluent family.

I think when you are looking on dating sites, women take a more "logical" and analytical approach to finding a mate. When you meet someone in person, how you make that person feel is a lot more relevant to first impressions than your "resume".

sly279
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15 Oct 2017, 9:33 pm

I’ve been rejected in person for it too. I don’t by the it’s just cause they online. They hold the same requirements they just don’t walk around telling everyone and their friends.

Art student in college. They make exceptions to cpmen in college cause ideally such men graduate and get good jobs. I should have dated while in college. Maybe I’d met s nice lady and she’d stayed with me when it turned out I’m a failure who wasted money on a degree

Outrider
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15 Oct 2017, 9:50 pm

Thank you.

I don't disagree women interested in ST EM historically possibly if not likely had plenty of their ideas claimed by their husband's.

Its happens to men in history as well so surely has happened to women.

Emily Noether: it's.unfortunate just how much recommendation it tppl.from Eintstein and Hilbert to get her that voluntary position at the German university.

That is a.big contribution and asucj as we all appreciate Einstein tpr his contribution he doesn't deserve full credit.

It looks like Einstein himself though didn't want full credit but history books and teachings have of course snuffed her out.

Probably due to sexism at the time "We can't be having people know a woman do X, it was all einstein" which simply stays that way throughout the decades succeeding it.

As for Rosalind Franklin, plenty of men have stolen ideas from other men and gotten away with it. Its unfortunate but human nature. As unethical as I find it, it is somewhat inevitable and I'm sorry to whoever scientists have had that happen to them.

What you say is correct, Edison for instance has had teams to invent certain items for him, likely he thought of the idea but they did the actual design and construction of tr invention, only for him to patent them as his own and historically not giving credit to those who worked for.him.

I may be wrong though . I've heard conflifting statements over Edison with some saying he did credit them historically.

Apparently Nikola Tesla was in some way screwed over but I can't recall how or if this is true. I have some reading to do, and perhaps will read more of this Emily Noether and Rosalind Franklin.

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15 Oct 2017, 9:57 pm

As well as giving credits to teams headed by a lead reasercher, and allowing women in STEM to be recognized, there needs.to be some sort of system in place better handling at ensuring ideas aren't stolen, frauded. Etc. Because STEM is absolutely full of it.

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15 Oct 2017, 10:08 pm

sly279 wrote:

True.

People are more willing to stays with someone and put the work in to stays with them when they're in love.

For example a woman who might.not date an.unemployed.men might stay with a man she's been in a relationship with for 2 years if h lost his job and support him while he works had to look for another.

I have read lots of stories of some who are abused who stayed with him to try and make things work because she loved him when she would have never got wtu him in the first place if he was like that in the beginning.

We need someone to fall in love ithbus . The power of love keeps people together.

There's a difference between love and dating.

People who are dating have high standards and have an idea of what thy want, as fpr lpve peope can fall in love wit someone tjey never auspected and they both worl hard to make thins worl together.

Love is more pure and sweet in this way.

The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 3:13 am

Outsider, in the Western cultures, the majority of your women don't seem much interested in STEM.

But in Russia, Middle East and south Asia, STEM degrees holders are 50% and more women (the work market is a different story tho).

Ironically, Iran and the Gulf countries, which are the most non-women friendly cultures in the world have the highest % of Women graduates in STEM.

http://www.wam.org.ae/en/details/1395302606617

Quote:

According to UNESCO, women constitute over 60 percent of Arab countries’ science, technology, engineering and mathematics, STEM, graduates. The forum is taking active measures to enhance women's participation in the Middle East’s robust and rapidly growing aviation sector, which contributes over US$157.2 billion to the GDP and generates more than 2.4 million jobs. In Dubai alone, the aviation industry is estimated to contribute 37.5 per cent to its GDP and support over 750,000 jobs by 2020.

Women's freedom and interest in STEM don't seem to be much correlated even within Mideast cultures; Lebanon for example is a much friendlier culture to women (in many ways, including the way of dressing, veil is not imposed, no restrictions on dressing except private parts) than the Gulf countries, but yet 51% of STEM graduates are women while in the Gulf it's 60%, I am not sure about Israel (yet, I view Israel as a totally Western culture).

magz
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16 Oct 2017, 4:47 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Quote:

Maybe it's not related to women's rights but to a local culture? Where in some cultures a STEM girl is seen as "having a male brain" while in others she is seen as "knowing something useful"?
I was mildly discouraged by my mother when I showed my interest in math - she told me of "guinea pigs" ("woman matematician is like a guinea pig - neither from Guinea, nor a pig"). She gave it up but my womanhood has been questioned many times because of my interests.
Maybe in India it is just not the case, you know IT - great, you can find a good job, that's it.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 4:52 am

^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

magz
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16 Oct 2017, 5:31 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

Or maybe in those macho cultures women choose STEM not to be seen as lesser beings, to feel more valuable, to be someone more equal to a male? While in more "feminized" cultures they don't want to be like those "bad" males?
I don't know, I can only speculate, I live in one culture and have certainly limited expirience. And my expirience was - my mother and grandmother wanted me to be more womanly, warm and emotional, while my father and uncle supported my STEM interests and logic wholeheartedly.
So maybe girls in STEM are an indication of a male-dominated society? I don't judge it, it's just a thought.

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Closet Genious
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16 Oct 2017, 5:57 am

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

I feel like you're doing alot of mental gymnastics just to avoid the obvious explanation.

The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 6:14 am

Closet Genious wrote:

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

I feel like you're doing alot of mental gymnastics just to avoid the obvious explanation.

What is the obvious explanation? That too much Feminism makes women lazy? :lol:

Closet Genious
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16 Oct 2017, 6:51 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Closet Genious wrote:

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

I feel like you're doing alot of mental gymnastics just to avoid the obvious explanation.

What is the obvious explanation? That too much Feminism makes women lazy? :lol:

Not quite lol.

That when there's not alot of economic incentive to go into STEM, women would rather go into people oriented fields like child care and nursing.

In my country the gap between a kindergarten teacher and an engineer, isn't actually that wide.

In poor countries however, the amount of extra economic freedom one can achieve by going into STEM is massive.

Long story short: if money didn't matter, women are more passionate about people, and men are more passionate about things.

GENERALLY

hurtloam
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16 Oct 2017, 7:01 am

sly279 wrote:

I hate to tell you this, but it's not just the job thing. Those of us on the spectrum are just very different from the mainstream. Even if you had a good job you'd still be autistic as would all of us here.

I've got a friend who I've not known that long, but he has a good job, a fancy car and he's very nice, but women aren't interested because he is too quiet and awkward. I'm willing to give him a chance. It's been slow progress getting to know because he's so quiet and so am I. I'm also older than him so I've been cautious so I don't make a fool of myself.

But a good job doesn't always equal success.

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16 Oct 2017, 7:12 am

hurtloam wrote:

sly279 wrote:

A good job will never hurt anyones chances.

The singer/songwriter john mayer is about as akward as I am, an likely on the spectrum, yet he is swimming in women. Though he is rich and famous of course...

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16 Oct 2017, 7:13 am

Closet Genious wrote:

hurtloam wrote:

sly279 wrote:

I doesn't hurt, but it isn't the magic key to success.

The_Face_of_Boo
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16 Oct 2017, 7:21 am

Closet Genious wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Closet Genious wrote:

magz wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

^ Notice how Italy is among the list, and Italy is known to be one of the most 'macho culture' in Europe, stereo-typically at least.

I feel like you're doing alot of mental gymnastics just to avoid the obvious explanation.

What is the obvious explanation? That too much Feminism makes women lazy? :lol:

Women in the Arab Gulf countries aren't poor though. I knew a Qatari girl who's a doctor now and her grades were top, her father owns a private jet.

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