Is informed consent valuable for autistics?

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Dog1
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24 Jan 2021, 12:22 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
wastubricine wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wastubricine wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
If there was such an organ in the body that allows for that, people who study anatomy would have already found it.



I wouldn't write it off so quick. The magnetoreception of birds is also something that's only getting discovered now: https://www.sciencealert.com/birds-see- ... eptor-2018


That is not the same as transmitting and receiving radio waves as a means of communication. That is birds being able to see the magnetic fields of earth and I would suspect it's for navigation.


It was my response to your statement "If there was such an organ in the body that allows for that, people who study anatomy would have already found it."

They haven't found the organ for magnetoreception for a long time either.


I guess that is true, though they did find a protein in the eye in the birds according to that article that might be at least partially responsible.

That said I still do not think the human body has the capacity to create radio waves, at best I could believe it could be possible to sense them in a way perhaps but just reading up a little on what it takes to create a radio signal, I just don't think our bodies have the hardware to do that.


Regarding electro-magnetism and electro-reception - almost every animal in existence can sense and create electromagnetic waves.

Humans and birds, for example, have a gland in their brain that acts as a radio-antenna.

Other animals such as Platypuses and sharks actually have specially developed glands on their snouts for sensing electromagnetic waves.

Birds, cats and dogs commonly utilize the Earth’s own natural electromagnetic field to navigate when they travel.

The Human ability to perceive the electromagnetic spectrum through glands in their brain is somewhat atrophied due to people learning to navigate using other means like maps for thousands of years - but some Humans are still born with very strong sense of the electromagnetic spectrum that gives them extra sensory abilities that in the past has usually been misinterpreted as “magic” or “psychic” abilities, even though the explanation is purely scientific.

Humans do generate passive electromagnetic signals and waves with their brain which can be unconsciously received by other humans.

Other animals do this as well, and it aids them in foraging for food and hunting.



rdos
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24 Jan 2021, 1:14 pm

KT67 wrote:
If you are writing to her then she can share with you whether she wants sex or not. That's a good way to get consent. Ask her via writing!

But that means you're not exclusively reading her mind...

Don't you have platonic friends you play games with, too? I wouldn't take playing games together as a sign on its own of anything more than friendship. Heck I have family members I play games with!


When I wrote "met" I didn't mean a usual meeting. I know where she is based on the direction sense and how she moves around. We sometimes have mind-to-mind conversations, and we might play games by walking on different sides of walls, sitting close in buildings (but still out of sight) or going around houses. I do see her for real occassionally, but not very often. In the beginning, she would setup meetings with the help of friends, and then I did see her for real at the end before she disappeared. Back then we didn't have the mind-to-mind connection and so she didn't know where I was and so needed friends to help her.



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24 Jan 2021, 6:19 pm

Dog1 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wastubricine wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
wastubricine wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
If there was such an organ in the body that allows for that, people who study anatomy would have already found it.



I wouldn't write it off so quick. The magnetoreception of birds is also something that's only getting discovered now: https://www.sciencealert.com/birds-see- ... eptor-2018


That is not the same as transmitting and receiving radio waves as a means of communication. That is birds being able to see the magnetic fields of earth and I would suspect it's for navigation.


It was my response to your statement "If there was such an organ in the body that allows for that, people who study anatomy would have already found it."

They haven't found the organ for magnetoreception for a long time either.


I guess that is true, though they did find a protein in the eye in the birds according to that article that might be at least partially responsible.

That said I still do not think the human body has the capacity to create radio waves, at best I could believe it could be possible to sense them in a way perhaps but just reading up a little on what it takes to create a radio signal, I just don't think our bodies have the hardware to do that.


Regarding electro-magnetism and electro-reception - almost every animal in existence can sense and create electromagnetic waves.

Humans and birds, for example, have a gland in their brain that acts as a radio-antenna.

Other animals such as Platypuses and sharks actually have specially developed glands on their snouts for sensing electromagnetic waves.

Birds, cats and dogs commonly utilize the Earth’s own natural electromagnetic field to navigate when they travel.

The Human ability to perceive the electromagnetic spectrum through glands in their brain is somewhat atrophied due to people learning to navigate using other means like maps for thousands of years - but some Humans are still born with very strong sense of the electromagnetic spectrum that gives them extra sensory abilities that in the past has usually been misinterpreted as “magic” or “psychic” abilities, even though the explanation is purely scientific.

Humans do generate passive electromagnetic signals and waves with their brain which can be unconsciously received by other humans.

Other animals do this as well, and it aids them in foraging for food and hunting.


Hmm that is interesting, even so we probably cannot create anything like actual radio waves, like that radios use at least that is my assumption. But I certainly have a weird sense of when a thunderstorm is coming, and well I don't believe in psychic abilities so I figure there has to be some scientific explanation for that.

Seems specifically electrical storms I sense though, I can't sense an oncoming snow storm only rain-storms with lighting and thunder.


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25 Jan 2021, 2:52 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Hmm that is interesting, even so we probably cannot create anything like actual radio waves, like that radios use at least that is my assumption. But I certainly have a weird sense of when a thunderstorm is coming, and well I don't believe in psychic abilities so I figure there has to be some scientific explanation for that.

Seems specifically electrical storms I sense though, I can't sense an oncoming snow storm only rain-storms with lighting and thunder.


Man-made radio waves (FM & AM modulation) uses a highly inefficient technique that draws energy all the time. I don't think such a technique could evolve through natural selection as it is too energy inefficient. It's like we would produce a base sound all the time and modulate it when we wanted to add some real information. Speech instead works by producing as short sounds as is possible to still allow for decoding it, and electromagnetic communication would need to use this same optimization technique as well to survive natural selection.



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25 Jan 2021, 4:25 am

There is a major difference between...

"I read the mind of this woman I'm attracted to and make love to her. Consent is overrated so I don't need it"

And

"I hug this woman I like. We write love letters to each other. Verbal language and chatting is overrated"

Consent is most important when it comes to sex. When it comes to hugs, that's really just a modern thing to 1 teach kids bodily autonomy and 2 make sure autistic people with sensory issues feel ok about physical contact.

Heck I know strangers who hug me. I hate it due to sensory needs but it's over in a matter of seconds with no other consequences. I know my body belongs to me.


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25 Jan 2021, 4:28 am

rdos wrote:
KT67 wrote:
If you are writing to her then she can share with you whether she wants sex or not. That's a good way to get consent. Ask her via writing!

But that means you're not exclusively reading her mind...

Don't you have platonic friends you play games with, too? I wouldn't take playing games together as a sign on its own of anything more than friendship. Heck I have family members I play games with!


When I wrote "met" I didn't mean a usual meeting. I know where she is based on the direction sense and how she moves around. We sometimes have mind-to-mind conversations, and we might play games by walking on different sides of walls, sitting close in buildings (but still out of sight) or going around houses. I do see her for real occassionally, but not very often. In the beginning, she would setup meetings with the help of friends, and then I did see her for real at the end before she disappeared. Back then we didn't have the mind-to-mind connection and so she didn't know where I was and so needed friends to help her.


Ok.

So you're not having sex.

So you don't need consent.


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rdos
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25 Jan 2021, 4:52 am

KT67 wrote:
Ok.

So you're not having sex.

So you don't need consent.


Actually, I didn't say, but at least we don't have sexual intercourse. :-)



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25 Jan 2021, 6:12 am

 ! magz wrote:
The offtopic posts have been moved here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=394004&p=8701788#p8701788


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25 Jan 2021, 6:34 am

rdos wrote:
KT67 wrote:
Ok.

So you're not having sex.

So you don't need consent.


Actually, I didn't say, but at least we don't have sexual intercourse. :-)


If you want to have sexual stuff on a physical level with her, write to her first or wait til she writes and asks you first. Including stuff like touching her breasts etc. She should write to you (this is an eg I am using for the sake of OP because OP writes to his lover - obvoiusly it's ok to just have a spoken or signed conversation over this stuff too!) if she wants to touch your penis. It's ok for either of you to say 'no' and this needs to be respected: you are two separate people. Both of you deserve to have bodily autonomy including from each other.

In English, "making love" has shifted its meaning over the last hundred years.

Nowadays it is code for having sex :wink:

One hundred years ago it meant 'seducing, courting' etc. But that is academic knowledge to most English speakers and you will cause confusion if you use it in that way.


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wastubricine
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25 Jan 2021, 7:21 am

Me and my nonverbal take informed consent seriously. We sign a contract every time we decide to shag. Yup. True story.



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25 Jan 2021, 7:27 am

I wouldn’t want some woman demanding to “know where I am” 24 hours a day. I like my privacy.

If I would demand that I know even where my wife is 24 hours a day, it would be at least rather creepy.



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25 Jan 2021, 7:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I wouldn’t want some woman demanding to “know where I am” 24 hours a day. I like my privacy.
I just like to know what to expect (like, know ahead about a planned party...)

kraftiekortie wrote:
If I would demand that I know even where my wife is 24 hours a day, it would be at least rather creepy.
And quite impractical ;)


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25 Jan 2021, 7:42 am

But of course! She would know that I’m various places most of the time, and can always reach me.



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25 Jan 2021, 10:36 am

I think I'm quite the opposite. I hate to always be reachable, and actually refuse to be, but I don't mind if my loved one can find me with the direction sense.

I fail to see where "demand" comes into the picture. We have mutual trust in each other and so I don't think any of us mind that we can locate each other if we want. It's simply a cool feature.



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26 Jan 2021, 9:04 am

I don't want my wife hanging on top of me all the time must have the alone time.When I'am out by myself have a phone but for needed help.