NT woman at her wit's end with her male Aspie friend

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Well, I feel like a doormat at times too. I sometimes think that I only provide entertainment for mine when he shows up. At others times I sit and wait for him for hours, because we communicate through the computer. He has no consideration for the amount of time that I spent waiting and the time and devotion that I've given him. All he'll tell me is to find something else to do while I wait and not to make him the center of my life.

The reason I stick around is for me. The good outweighs the bad for now. I've never let anyone else treat me like this before, I don't know why I let him do it. He even says I am predictable.

In a way, it upsets me to read how Aspie's blame NT's for everything that's wrong but they can't see the pain that they cause us. It's all part of the problem, they can't help it and neither can we.

I am sorry you feel blamed. I don't blame NT's for anything, I am the one who is on the outside looking in.

Well, find something els to do as he said, watch TV or read a book for instance, then he gets to wait too sometimes.


We all are.


Well, to be fair "we" are one or mayby two people, NTs are everyone around us. And most of us are targeted by NTs becouse we are different, you might never have targeted one, that doesn't mean a lot of NTs don't. And we can often help it if you would just explain what's wrong, but most of the time you won't for some reason.

I wish I'd run across this thread sooner, and I'm probably too late to be of much help, but your relationship/friendship with this guy sounds eerily similar to some things I've dealt with. I don't know him, or you, so I'm just replying based largely on my own experiences. Insert "probably" or "maybe" where appropriate :p

In his mind, you've been hanging out a lot together, probing at each other to divulge more intimate things, then you go out with someone else. If he had any feelings for you at that point, it probably crushed him, putting him on the defensive. He doesn't want to lose you, so he tries to pull back, let you know that he's got his own stuff going on, but he's not able to stop feeling what he feels, so he lashes out against you and the guy you were with. He wants you to know that it hurt without saying it, because coming out and directly telling you that he cares for you would possibly mean losing you altogether.


The problem is, he probably thinks he's being as direct as possible without freaking you out, and he's doing this because in some cases, you're not telling him exactly where he stands or what you want. It's like the nature of your relationship - you're not sure what it is, you don't know what he wants, you don't know what you want, and you're both waiting for one another to give a straight answer. You recently asked him what he wants, but didn't tell him what you want. If he says he wants a relationship, and you tell him you just want to be friends after that fact, he's going to feel humiliated. If he says he wants a friendship, I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't be entirely OK with that.


I'm guilty of this, too. I suppose I just feel like I'm bothering people if I ask them to come over, or don't really believe anyone would want to, and I'm horrible at playing host and it wouldn't be enjoyable for anyone. His reasons might be similar.


I'm going waaay out on a limb here, but this kind of sounds like he might be upset with you over something else and was waiting to see if you would take the initiative to discuss it with him. I do this sometimes when I'm upset and want to talk about something, but know on some level that it's childish or stupid and don't want to come across that way. Or he may be upset enough to yell, but doesn't want to unload on you, and is trying to keep it to himself while still letting you know something is bothering him.

I know you're at wits end, not interested in a relationship, and maybe done with him entirely...but y'know, from everything here, I have to say that I don't believe you. Or rather, I don't think you're as put-off as you maybe think you are. You've got an 8 PAGE THREAD on this guy. For all the quirks and difficulties and annoyances and frustrations, you seem like you're on cloud 9 after you two have a good day together. Throughout the friendship, it seems like you're spending as many as several days and nights together, presumably alone, and having dinner together. To be honest, I kind of get the feeling that you're actually in love with him, but don't know how to rationalize it to yourself.

Or maybe I'm just waxing romantic and he's really just a dick :p

AF? Is that you? I knew you were on WP

Well, I can't disagree with your point.

I'd be relieved to have an answer and elated that he actually respected me.

We spent the first 6 or so weeks that we knew each other exclusively at his place. Soon after that I distanced myself from him for about 6 weeks and since then I've been doing all of the inviting and hosting.
Of course, by not being at his place I don't have to see his ex-GF's slippers on his shoe mat every visit. (Yeah, that's why I say it isn't over.)

This is possible, and as you said, I should insert some maybes, but I cannot imagine a scenario where he'd want to talk about something that's bothering him. He avoids discussions about feelings. Perhaps he was upset with me and trying to get that across, that could be, but he seems allergic to confrontation of any type.
I'll agree with "maybe not as put-off..." That's why I'm here, I'm trying to figure this out.
I do have strong feelings for him, yes, but that doesn't mean they should be acted upon. I really cannot see how it would work without us both being hurt, too hurt. In his way, he must be aware of this too. He did after all, hone in on the phrase, "we have put a lot of work into this friendship," and parrot it back to me as "sorry to hear I'm a lot of work."

I think it's a combination.

Based on what I've told of his behaviour (and mine, warts and all), do you think he's been a bit of a jerk? Could you have any respect for somebody like me if you were [somebody like] him? Or vice-versa?

At any rate, thanks for your insight. It all makes sense.

BTW, how is this situation eerily similar to some you've had? Do you mean these misunderstandings or more that our personalities are familiar?

Oh, and why probably too late?

I'm skipping ahead here because really, this is what it all comes down to. From what you've described, yeah, I think he's being kind of a jerk sometimes. The thing with you making him lunch and him just sitting there for 15 minutes kind of irked me, but I'm a big fan of manners.



Only too late in the sense that it sounds like you're working towards the tail end of figuring this all out

But yeah, your situation and your personalities are kind of familiar. Back in my late teens, I had been out record shopping one day and ran into an acquaintance from high school (I'd dropped out by then). She was with her roommate, and we all started chatting, and went back to their place to hang out. I don't remember what we did, but I wound up sleeping on their couch that night and hanging out with them pretty regularly after that, especially the roommate, who I seemed to have a lot in common with. When they moved into different apartments, I kept in touch with her, and lost touch with the girl from HS, and we seemed to be developing that same kind of friend/relationship thing that you and AF have. Hanging out a lot, I was staying over a lot (but not sleeping together), she made dinner for me a couple of times, and I really felt like we might be developing into something more, but never really could figure out how to approach it. I just kind of assumed that if we were hanging out like we were, it had to be more than just casual friends, and if something were going to happen, it would just come about naturally. That went on for a few months until she started dating some guy, we kind of mutually pulled away from each other, etc. I guess some of what you described just brings back a lot of memories.

It's hard to remember specific details of how I might have acted towards her back then, but I do know that I was an emotional wreck through most of high school, and probably reacted similarly at times to your AF. Even now, when I'm really upset, I have a tendency to react in ways that I know are irrational or childish, and even through I recognize myself acting that way, I just can't help it sometimes. What's frustrating is that the things that make me upset and trigger those reactions aren't even necessarily big issues, but things I consider important on principle or that seem to imply some underlying meaning. I kind of get the impression your AF may do this sort of thing, but without knowing him, I can only guess.

Hope everything works out, whatever you decide to do.

Sounds more similar than not. This reminds me of something a friend of mine said after I explained how I'd just asked a guy (AF, of course) which direction he was interested in taking the relationship. My friend, a social worker said, "I suspect that he already thought you were dating." This was pre-Asperger's.



It does sound very familiar. They way you explained things in your first post was indeed eerie,to use your word, as you seemed to understand his motives, actions and reactions. He doesn't seem to be aware of his triggers, and in some respects seems less self-aware than many Aspies I've met through my very NT, layperson's research.



Another angle?
If he were an NT guy I really would explain that I'm confused about what I want from him. For obvious reasons I cannot see this being a constructive confession in this case. A few nights ago AF said (email) that my questions were "not open to answering." Of course, I think he's just refusing to answer and will make any excuse, but in the very off chance that I'm not beating a dead horse, is there another way to pose the question or at least explain myself and my position so that we can actually open this to conversation?

This does seem rather one sided. So, you schedule times to meet online but he doesn't respect them?

I'm not questioning your relationship, you've certainly seen my dirty laundry here, but do you have a healthy support network independent of your friend? It could help with perspective at those times.



Obviously, I can relate to the "I don't know why I let him do it" part but it seems that telling you that you're "predicatble" is a bit mean spirited and, frankly, a tad predictable ; )




Before WP I wasn't aware of the animosity between these two worlds.

Yeah, this is pretty much what I was getting at, albeit in a really roundabout way. That's how it was with me and the friend I mentioned, and pretty much every girlfriend I've ever had was a friend that gradually just kind of turned into something else. I think it's a defensive mechanism - I used to just come out with it and tell a girl I liked her, but my feelings were never reciprocated, and while I would always try to remain friends with these girls, every one of them would eventually start ignoring my calls or giving me excuses not to talk or hang out.


Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by his apparent lack of self-awareness. As far as I know, I've never met any other Aspies in real life, and don't even know with 100% certainty if I am one, so I don't really know how common that is for people his age.


To be honest, I don't really know. It kind of sounds like he doesn't want to be the one forced to make a decision, and wants you to just come out and tell him how you feel. Based on how you're feeling about all this, you might try just being as honest as possible. Tell him you feel hurt by his actions sometimes, but that you care for him a great deal, enjoy hanging out a lot, and don't want to lose him one way or another. Just be careful with how you phrase things, try to avoid coming across as accusatory or judgmental, and acknowledge where you've maybe not been as clear or direct as you could have been. If you do have deeper feelings for him than just friendship, maybe acknowledge it, but explain why you would be hesitant to take things further in that direction. Mostly, just try to avoid making him feel like you're attacking him, blaming him, or otherwise putting him in a position where he'll feel like he's solely responsible for causing you pain, because that will almost certainly cause him to feel hurt, angry, and rejected.

I dunno. I could be wrong. Maybe another WP'er with more Aspie experience can give some additional insight.


I only discovered this stuff back around October/September, so the NT vs. AS thing is pretty new to me, too. I always treated it as me vs. everyone else.

To an aspie, predictability is actually a compliment (whether the aspie is saying it or someone else is)... an aspie saying that someone is predictable means that the aspie can make sense of the other person, and therefore makes it easier for the aspie to interact with said person...


Most NT's don't even know about AS... but as children, NT's will bully "that weird kid", since people with AS are often alone with nobody else they know in real life being like them... Thus, aspies grow up with this idea that NT's as a whole don't like them...

For me, there isn't any animosity. Yeah, jr. high and high school were hell, And I never got the hang of NT females. Probably any females, I don't think I have ever met an Aspie one.

Granted, I'd prefer things to be different. I'd also prefer to be a multi-millionaire. Neither of those are going to happen...

I'm the odd duck out. Railing against it is not very productive. And it doesn't even make me feel good. So what is the point?

It all depends on the source. While I don't know ButterFlair's friend, it's possible that he knows that it's a comment that could be taken as an insult. That said, I just realized that I assumed she meant he was insulting her, and we all know the saying about assuming...



Huh? Bill Gates and nerd-chic haven't made it hip to be Aspie? ; )

There are some differences between nerd and aspie... for one thing, a nerd can usually realize when the people around him are being manipulative... Also, nerds don't gain any measure of worth from others until at least halfway through high school...

An acquaintance who is an Aspie, counsels people with AS using CBT, and has an AS son, suggested my friend is less self-aware or, perhaps more inexperienced, in certain life skills than others in his age group. This person also warned me to be careful since AF doesn't seem to know what will affect him and what won't.

He's only been away from the structure of university life for just over two or so years, and before that he had what sounds like a very, very structured home life. It was his description of his family and how he grew up that was one of my first hints that something was, for lack of a better word, different. The ingredients were familiar to me though I'd never known of a family that had all those in one dish. Just based on what he's said about his parents, I wouldn't be surprised if one (or both) of them were somewhere on the spectrum, especally since there does seem to be a strong genetic component.


As I learned (again) last week, this is the trickiest part: how to phrase it.

Actually, yeah, I could see that if I brought that up, he'd relax a bit. This, my not being as direct as he may want, is precisely the sort of thing that he'd be offended by and therefore will become defensive and hold a grudge.

Not sure what to do with this piece. It could cause damage, or it may be OK. Not sure at all.

I've been trying to get him to give me an answer because I've felt that I've done a great deal of the work, so therefore he should meet me on this subject. In retrospect, while that isn't unreasonable in The Big Picture, it probably is given who I'm dealing with. He's hypersensitive to perceived criticism of any sort and just as you said, the underlying implications, which in this case he could see as me trying to make him do something that will either cause humiliation or possibly something even worse. If I'm to follow this argument to its end, I'm insisting that he choose between two "wrong" answers. Hence, the statement, "not open to answering."

Whoa, I feel so clear now I almost, almost, wanna type "Hazaa," but don't worry, I won't ; )




If one feels they are alone then yes, the me against the world attitude, or perhaps reaction is the more appropriate word, seems natural.

What you said there irritated me a great deal, I know that you didn't meant for it to be that way, but it's very close to either the "Ohh, it's not so bad, everyone goes through a tough period in life sometimes." or "Why do you have to be so different? Can't you just be like the others?"
The first one is the denial of a problem that most of us as met and in vain fought against when meeting teachers/parents/counslors etc.
The other is turing the entire problem against us and let us take the blaim for being mistreated.

As I said, I know you didn't mean it to sound that way, but it did.
(It took me a while to figure out why it offended me.)


Still learing.

You have to realize that AS wasn't even a diagnosis until the late 1980s or so. And then, the focus was on children. In addition, AS is found in only a small fraction of the population. So yeah, I've felt isolated. Like in that scene from the movie "Simon". "The doctor said I was alienated. Of course I am alienated, I am an alien!".

That line resonated with me.

I never even heard of AS until a psychologist suggested my nephew might have it in the late 1990s. I researched it and came to the conclusion he wasn't AS. I, on the other hand...

Eventually, I discovered this site. You have no idea what that was like. Here are people with stories that are like mine. That never happened to me before. The feelings of be asexual, not having kissed a girl until, well, older than anyone else I knew.

I really wish there had been something like this when I was growing up. It would have made things a lot easier. I wouldn't have put nearly as much effort in trying to figure out what the problem was and what I needed to do to fix it, and would have concentrated on coping. That at least is possible.

So, yeah, some here are a little prickly. And some, quite frankly, have allowed themselves to succumb to rage. I've tried to avoid that, but I played a game for decades that I didn't have any chances at all. I've tried to keep at it, because I don't see the alternatives leading to anything good, but it isn't easy.

I don't blame NTs. It isn't their fault I was dealt this hand. It has some perks and those I enjoy. But the social stuff can really get me down.