what women want

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[GEE I WONDER WHY YOU CAN'T GET A WOMAN.]
Snake. Porn films are not the best place to get dating tips.

He has not mentioned relationships at all. He is bitter and twisted because strange women won't immediately sleep with him. He has been acting like women should be obligated to be sluts just because he is horny.

No he isn't. SEX CAUSES PREGNACY.. yes contraception exists.. but that is not going to magically erase the several million years evolution has invested into ensuring a woman's psyche can find a compatable mate thats going to better her lineage. I said sunconscious. If you are rejected in essence your sperm has been rejected.. men do not have to be fussy about such things as they can walk away from pregnancy. It is where the term 'sew your wild oats' comes from. I said READ CAREFULLY before.. do not expect me to explain this again.. if your genes and/or status doesn't cut it don't blame it on women being prudish or shallow.

Yes and some women end up in abusive relationships being bashed everyday because they're lonely. Whats fair about that? There are pros and cons to everything.


I'm not sure what you are saying here.. are you expecting them to be psychic? Everyone deserves love.. but if you are no confident enough to show who you are inside relying on women guessing won't get you anywhere.

Sorce,
Save a spot for me on the bench just in case..

My point in the male cop, female speedster/female cop, male speedster thing wasn't about porn... I was making a point, if the guy tried to bribe the woman with sex he'd get the s**t smacked out of him, but if the woman tries to bribe the guy with sex it will usually work. Point being, and I'm not agreeing with it but rather me ot you like it or not, women are treated like objects in society, and on the flipside it gives women alot of advantage over men in finding mates (and sometimes making money or getting by if you look at strippers and escorts and such... or even to a lesser degree waitresses). This is an undeniable fact.
I mean it's cool to be proud of your femininity, but you might not wanna become so proud that your arrogant to seeing the faults of feminism. I'm proud to be male I suppose but I'll be the first to admit I think it's stupid when other men call a girl a slut then go around sleeping with scores of women. Yes, I critized MEN there, MEN.

This is true.. but it is based on that pretence. There does not need to be a target man or woman around for there to be sexual rivalry.. sometimes it can just give rivals something to fight over. The mate isn't the main prize IMO.. achieving dominance is.

There is something wrong with this concept if one is expecting another to 'submit' and ignore their own expectations.. co-ersion would only lead to shame. There is a difference. Snake's argument seems to centre around 'it not being fair' that women don't have sex indiscrimimently.. obviously he can't be arguing that they should change their human nature.. so is he expecting them to just 'act' the part instead? There are women lining up for men in red light discricts if thats what he really wants.

No-one is asking men not to have libidos. All we ask for is respect [yeah just a little bit].. if we don't want you.. [hypathetically] you should respect this.. not try guilt us into pity sex. Thats just pathetic. If someone gropes me or asks for a f** and I slap him.. should I apologise if he feels ashamed? He should be ashamed of himself.
I get the feeling some guys are expecting women to 'lower' themelves yet are expecting to not be called pigs for it. Again, if they want women to cater to a fantasy.. they should rent one.

Conversly.. I don't think many one night stands end up in marriage. There is usually some sort of 'empathy' to build a relationship on.. otherwise it wouldn't last a week.

That's naive and idealistic. Perhaps that's your problem; you believe that love is something other than a cultural construct, built around innate biological drives. Love isn't about accepting people for who they are - it's about accepting a person for their ability to fulfill a role. Part of that role includes the things that you don't consider 'practical' - things like humour, confidence and empathy. But other people do consider them practical because they're part of their needs.

I also wonder if you think that conformity is in itself a bad thing. It's not. Sticking to your guns at all times because you think it is, is a good way to not grow and develop.



It is not my intent to be bitchy. I've only criticised your opinions but not you personally. And whatever comments I have made in regards to you personally were made speculatively.

In reference to snake and riley's comments, I would say that both of you make good points. The 'dating game' is indeed skewed in favour of particular genders, but whether it's one way or the other is up for debate. Women in general certainly can in more cases than not go out and pick up a random fellow. Conversely, men would generally find that more difficult. But like riley says, any smart woman isn't going to 'take advantage' of this situation - perhaps, I daresay, like a typical male would. That would be contrary to biological drives, which are reinforced by society. The word 'slut' and attitudes towards promiscuous women exist because females are expected to be the more discriminating sex, and to what extent the origins of this are cultural or biological can probably never be determined - but probably biology is at least partially involved.

Both the female and male can be 'objects of desire' and both have to make an effort to impress the opposite sex. The way in which this works is different for each sex. The male will tend to look for physical attractiveness in a mate, and the female will tend to at the personality and the male's ability to fulfill the needs of their relationship - and that depends on her situation (ie. does she want children). Snake, while you accurately sum up part of the situation, you neglect to acknowledge the female perspective and I think that's why riley has reacted in the manner she has. The male does have to change aspects of themselves in order to 'please' the female, but this is true of the female as well. Instead of changing their personality however, they need to enhance themselves physically. This may be just as hard for some women as it is for some men to change themselves.

I think that there is a general feeling that in the spirit of egalitarianism, many people desire to see men and women on similar playing fields. But men and women are not the same. They have different needs and not all of that can be attributed to cultural factors alone. So while I'm definitely not advocating that we do nothing to settle gender inequality, I don't think we should be too hasty in thinking that huge changes in the way men and women interact are necessary. Even feminists can't agree with each other on what should be done, and they've been discussing this for decades.

Not only that, but whenever we start talking about 'gender', we're basing our discussion on the lowest common denominator. But every individual is different and will have their own opinions - look at the diversity of thought here for example. I think some people just need to realise that regardless of what experience has made them feel, people of a certain sex are individuals, even if they are influenced by what cultural messages exist. People aren't passively influenced by culture, they're active members and they can reject cultural values if they so wish. Thinking that the next experience is going to be exactly like the last one because people of a particular gender are all similar is an attitude that will doom you from the start.

riley: I think you may have read too much into snake's comments. The way in which he has brought up his argument is crude, but true. He said that if a woman decided to be promiscuous in that instance, then chances are she would be able to get out of trouble. He did not say anything about how he felt morally on the issue; neither did he imply whether that situation was desirable or not. He simply made an observation.

He's already made it pretty clear how he views women:

"Though I strongly wish women had to make just as much of an effort in approaching and attracting a man as we have to in order to approaching and attracting a woman. I mean when is the last time a man bribed a woman with his penis? He'd get slapped S**tless."

"I mean, women talk about wanting to be able to do men's work, to thrive in a man's world, they can't have their cake and eat it too... They should approach men like a man approaches a woman"

Who says it's a man's world? What does 'eat their cake' mean? Snake is in no position to tell me or any other woman what we should do.. though he seems to think that because women exist in what he considers a 'man's world' that they should act like men. I don't feel any obligation to act like a man, and just because I expect the same amount of respect doesn't mean I'm trying to be one.. it's no longer a 'mans world' so I can work form what rules I am comfortable with.

"I agree it's degrating, but it also provides you an advantage."

Whether something is 'advantageous' or not is dependent to perception. He has been ignoring this point completely.



And here is where he dismisses my point of view as wrong because I do not agree that it's an advantage to barter sexuality:

"Once again riley your neglecting your status as a female."

IMO when women use their sex to get 'things'.. they're doing their whole gender a diservice by creating expectations that they should hoar themselves when things get desperate. Eg. Statistically it is a fact that most prositutes have been sexually abused as children.. so how is that advantagious to promote this as somehow 'empowering'?

Ok, it seems with this thread now going on 9 pages I'm having trouble remembering who said what. Riley, I suppose what I should say is that even though you may disagree with aspects of what snake says, it doesn't mean you have to reject everything he says. Personally I disagree with the way snake dismissed your argument, and with some of the views he expressed earlier. But the last couple of posts he made contained some elements of truth, even though some of his conclusions imho remain wonky.

I think you're confusing sexual love with other forms of love. Love isn't just about attraction. Not all relationships classified as "love" involve sex. All people (including myself) should be prepared to accept other people as they are. That's not to say that there isn't room for improvement, as true love also involves helping one another to be the best that they can be - but I do not see any reason why I should change who I am. I am a person, and who I am isn't something that should change to suit everyone else's whims. Why do you think that people complain that others are "trying to impress others"? I've had a number of people - all girls - tell me that I shouldn't be trying to please everyone. And I feel happier not trying to please others. People should be allowed to be who they are without fear of persecution. Do you think that a black person should paint themselves white in order to make them "more desirable"?

Also, I have never said that I lack empathy or that I have no use for it. Empathy is one area that I am strong in. I also see some value in humour, but I don't understand the value in confidence. And nobody seems to want to step up to the plate to explain that one. Maybe the lack of explanation indicates that it is a completely arbitrary desire that has just become engrained in our culture for no reason? I sometimes find confidence to be a turn-off, in various facets of life - the workplace being an important exception.



I'm glad you bring that up, because I have always hated conformity. This would be a pretty boring world if we were all the same, right? Conformity just leads to rivalries and bullying, because people who choose to be different get persecuted. That is one of the chief problems that Aspies face. Why don't we just all conform to one religion or one language? Why don't we all dye our hair blue? Why don't we all listen to the same radio station? I believe in being a leader and not a blind follower.



And that is what I appreciate about your posting style. No personal attacks with "screw you!" and all sorts of arbitrary garbage that has no backup.

I've rejected the other things he has said because they warrented it IMO. All his opinions so far seem to be based on adolescent assumptions about women.. indeed I have not simply disagreed for spite though I have responded with a little more bite than usual. This thread was originally 'what women want'.. and he's entered it telling women what they should want. The desire some men have [they aren't all sex crazed] to have sex with any woman is not an unfair advantage for womankind; but a failing of those men. Whether it be sex, drugs or gambeling.. wherever there is weakness a buck or an opportunity will be made. Thats not a gender thing.. thats a human thing.

Confidence is an indication that a person is able to get their needs met. Maybe it's not a 100% accurate indication because people can fake it or have an elevated sense of themselves, but generally it's accurate enough to be useful.

You say that you find confidence in the workplace to be desirable. Why is this? It's because you know that a person who's confident in something probably knows what they're doing. You wouldn't want to meet your surgeon prior to having heart surgery and realise that he had no confidence in his abilities. You'd probably look for a different surgeon.

Likewise, a person being approached by someone wishing to enter a relationship would rather they be a confident person. Confidence tells a person they know how to get their needs met, and they're not afraid to do what it takes to fulfill them. They're desirable qualities in a partner, because that means they're able to fulfill their duties and their role. If someone meets a person who isn't confident, then that prompts the person to ask why they're not confident. The most obvious answer to this is that the person hasn't been able to meet their needs in the past - like the surgeon lacking in confidence, it's assumed that his lack of confidence arises out of a lack of skills. So why then would that person want to take them as a partner? Simply, they wouldn't.

In regards to the last comment here, is it confidence you find a turn-off or specifically inflated confidence? Because nobody finds the latter attractive. Also, overt confidence isn't always particularly attractive.



But you do conform. Everyone conforms, to be heard, understood, and accepted. This starts from when you learn your first words, and even before then. You don't speak in an idiosyncratic dialect that nobody can understand but yourself, do you? No, you learnt to speak and write in English because by doing so you were able to engage in shared focus - communicate with people. This is the reason why we conform, and even though we may not conform as strictly as other people, we still make efforts to 'bridge the gap' between ourselves and others. Through conformity, we relate to each other through shared experience and values.

Imagine for a second that you did not know about AS, that Wrongplanet and other AS communities didn't exist, and that as far you knew there was no other person who shared your experiences, values, or understanding of the world. You'd feel rather lonely and invalidated, I imagine. But you do know about AS and Wrongplanet, and you do know of others who share similarities to yourself. Did you not feel relief and some sense of joy when you came upon people like yourself? Well, that's the same feeling involved in the drive for conformity. It's similar to the feeling a person who has dyed their hair blue feels when they go to join their blue-haired friends. It means that you are able to share yourself with others and be understood, because that person's experience is similar to yours. And just like you cannot relate to the woman who wears fashionable clothes and spends her time partying, people who aren't on the spectrum aren't easily able to relate to you.

To give an example that probably you'll be able to relate to, I'd say you've been recommended a movie to watch at some time in your life. Assuming you saw that movie, that's another experience you have in common with people who've seen it too. That's all conformity is. People don't conform for the sake of conforming; they conform because they desire shared experience, which leads to common understanding, values, etc.

Now obviously, I'm not advocating absolute conformity. But I am simply stating what purpose conformity has, and why it's beneficial to conform - as long as you don't sacrifice a large part of yourself in the process. If you have a group of apes who eat bananas but one eats apples, the ape who eats apples has less in common with the others and therefore can't share his experience of having eaten an apple. Then it's up to the ape to decide whether it's worth his while for him to start eating bananas as well. The same will go for you - how much do you want to be able to relate to others, and vice-versa?

God f*****g damn, stop making me out to be the f*****g bad guy... I'm merely pointing out the obvious, and you make me sound like I'm just out for a piece of p****! It's not a goddamn thing like that and now YOUR starting to piss ME off. You are an arrogant piece of crap, ok so your point is basically "Yes I can find Mr. Right Now but I don't care because he's not Mr. Right" (thereby prooving my point)... My point is Ms. Right now would atleast be SOMETHING to an aspie male, we'd do backflips for a Ms. Right Now... Females in general don't hafta deal with rejection like guys do.
So you say you don't have a boyfriend, but how many people COULD be your boyfriend? As an aspie male, I'm used to being treated like a FREAK by the opposite gender. seriously, if possible try looking like a guy as much as possible and make it look believable, learn to talk like a guy, go somewhere where your not known and try to get introduced as a guy. Then (just for expirementation) try to ask girls out. Or all you really hafta do is look at autism groups where no man has a girl, but almost every girl or atleast half of them are with a guy. But you'd rather throw any evidence out the window and try to make me to be the bad guy perv (rolls my eyes).

Oh, sorry it seems I misunderstood you then.

I'm sorry but this crap isn't worth fighting over, it's not gonna change anything.... Even though I feel it's like arguing that bannannas are purple when we know theyr yellow... But foget that, maybe we can just agree to disagree. I'm done here, if you wanna hate on me then hate on me. I'm not sexist and I'm not just out for a lay, you can percieve me however you want to though.

I don't know why males think it is so much easier for us females. It is NOT easier. I don't know why guys think we can just get a man at the snap of a finger. I'm female and I have been treated like a FREAK as well by the opposite gender as well. I don't see any guys lined up to come date me.

riley and sorce: Like I said before, I think snake comes up with many valid points, even though I disagree with his belief that dating is completely in favour of women, and his dismissal of you (riley) due to your gender. I've looked back four pages of snake's comments and from what I've read I can see that some of what he says can quite easily be interpreted as evidence of a sexist view, but I don't feel this was how he meant to be understood. Mainly this is because at no point has he come right out and made his beliefs explicitly clear, other than a vague belief about women having an advantage.

Over the last several posts, he has only been stating facts as he sees them but most of the replies to his posts haven't directly argued any of his points. In fact, the general feeling I got was that many things have been assumed of snake's character solely because he has deviated from politically correct views. You should re-read some of his posts and see what I am talking about. I think snake has made some rather in-your-face comments and that may also have thrown people off, making it seem there were sexist undertones to what he was saying.

Ok, there are SOME females who are in the same situation socially... But there are still alot more females who don't have this problem, atleast half of the aspie females are excepted and can get a date. Not so with men. And the women who can't from my experience usually don't look very much like a woman (not trying to say this in an insulting manner I'm just pointing something out, but I tried to say it in the nicest way I possibly could here).
Seriously, I'm talking to a girl now who is a "dating aspie" (as in she gets dates somewhat regularly), when is the last time you seen a aspie male get dates on a somewhat regular basis with different people? Only if he's gotten extremely lucky and found a female partner who is open to a swinger type thing, because she is his passport. I honestly don't think I'd be open to the swinger thing though.

I do not try to be "politically correct" as I feel it is a blinder.... But I did not undermine riley due to her gender, I love women. I never made an attack on women, I criticized thier status in society, but I also criticized men for hypocritical behavior and oddly enough that doesn't seem to be getting noticed. It's because alot of the girls screaming at me on here are not thinking logick, theyr thinking with emotion. Women do generally think on emotion but also being aspie one would be inclined to think logick would come into play somewhere in here...