have you ever been a target of a PUA (pick-up artist)?

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Just move your body about 45 to 90 degrees and or move to the side away from there face as that give them the feeling you about to walk from away from them. As for one to one rapport building you need to be face to face with an other person or on a 45 degree angle with you face looking at them. Oh also put some distance between you as a well to make sure they don't go into your personal space. I stopping hand geshter to block them getting too close works for that.

It's the gradual progression of invading someone's space. Finding reasons to move closer, finding a reason to touch briefly, then touch for longer, and so on. Within these general lines, individuals will develop a personal routine that they believe works for them and use that like it's the combination to a safe. It's a bit like snowflakes and fingerprints.

ok, but ive seen women try the same thing. start with poking, maybe grab shoulder, play with hair, rub belly...

Sure. I've got my own moves. Women vary quite a bit more than men as far as moves go. It's like all guys work from the same playbook, and women tend to create their own magic. It's not always like that. There's some blessed people out there who avoid the whole moves nonsense altogether. I think the interesting thing about it for me was the enlightenment that I could now identify the moves, as opposed to just being caught up in them. I love analysis and this information was the key to allowing me to step to the outside of the situation and analyze it while it was happening. Plus, I hate surprises. I love being prepared. If I know what's going on, I feel more comfortable and empowered in a situation. So, even though this isn't one of the world's greatest unsolved mysteries, it still was pretty awesome for me to know.

Yo I wonder how Game would work for girls in a proper sense if you are considered you know, not a super model and you don't really have a feminine personality. As an omega female I have had to work hard and try to be smooth like Lando Calrissian and make the moves on every guy I've been with including my current boyfriend who is a greater beta. (Go me! Now I have to use hardcore Game to keep him!)

However at that time I didn't know about proper Game techniques for women so I just tried to act alpha and have swagger. I have never been the target of a PUA before actually but I've targeted plenty of people with pseudo or proto PUA powers.

Game and beta used in the same post? We got a live one!

I don't see how you can possibly even have a clear idea of what a PUA is. Every sexual (as in not asexual) person tries to make him/herself more attractive to the other gender. What makes a PUA different from other people? Is it that he takes advice from somebody else, that he uses a set routine, or that he tries to misrepresent his intentions? Is there some other criteria? I looked into some PUA stuff in high school, but they never once said anything about pick-up lines, routines, or trying to trick anybody. Basically the idea of their advice was how to flirt and be interesting in conversation. So that probably doesn't fit with what most people think of as PUA, but that's what they called themselves. One of the things they said was that topics of conversation that are usually safe are pets, family, vacation, food, and hobbies, and another thing they said was that generally it is attractive for men to lead in conversation, to listen to what the woman says, and to make humor sometimes. So if I when I am talking to a woman,and the conversation starts to die, I remember this stuff and ask the woman a question about her hobbies, does that make me a pick up artist? (btw, that's the start of their advice, it's not like that's the whole thing). Or what if there is a guy who is naturally good with women, so that he never needed any advice or routine, but he was a liar and manipulated people's feelings? Is he a PUA, or is he just a jerk? And what if there was a guy who did learn a particular method for picking up girls that didn't entirely represent who he actually was, but he only did it because he wasn't naturally good with women, and he just wanted a girlfriend? If you got picked up by a guy who sincerely wanted to be a good boyfriend, would you really be mad if you found out that he wasn't really as spontaneous as he made it look? The way I see it, men attract women primarily through their behavior, so if a guy wants to be more attractive, he has to modify his behavior. I don't think it is any more or less honest or moral than make-up.

That is exactly what I did when I was a teenager. I don't see the point of acting nice if the people around you don't seem capable of giving or receiving sincere kindness.

Ironically, my Aspie is a master PUA. We were students at the same grad school, the night he put his moves on me. He'd obviously studied some of the classic techniques. He had status; he was aloof; he dressed snazzy. He waited to catch me alone, hesitantly asked if he could buy me a drink, complimented something I'd done that was actually idiotic. While we made conversation, he progressively moved into my personal space, without making me feel trapped. He never broke eye contact, except to watch my lips as I spoke. I don't know why, but that is intensely disarming and erotic.

Once he was pretty sure he had me, he reached over to tuck my hair behind my ear. Electric. All I could do not to jump him right there - EXCEPT, there was something distinctly scripted, artificial, and rehearsed about it. He begged me to go home with him, or to come home with me. I refused. I was already madly in love, and afraid he'd do the same thing to me, that happened to hyperlexian.

If his interest was authentic, I figured he could wait a bit, and work for it. Oh my, did he ever! He wanted to make it impossible for me to say no . . . and he was successful. But the way he went about it was so extreme and bizarre, he was shocked I didn't run away screaming. I kind of was too, but by that point I didn't care. On one hand, his sweetness and strangeness (among other things) reassured me that his feelings for me were authentic. On the other hand, his initial smooth-operator approach left me suspicious. I spent the next year trying to figure out who the REAL guy was. He breached my trust over and over, until I wound up breaking it off. And so did his other girlfriend.

Many years later, I figured out the AS, and the real guy became very easy to understand after that. The memorized scripts, the naivete, the terrible judgment, the inability to express emotion verbally, the total ignorance of how to have a healthy, normal relationship, coupled with professional success and and the outward appearance of normalcy. He's a crazy magnet because he thinks PUA techniques are the normal way to meet women, which generally alienates the good ones, and entices the lunatics to pursue him.

So my Aspie is a perfect example of a guy who learned a particular method for picking up girls that doesn't entirely represent who he actually is, but he only did it because he wasn't naturally good with women, and he just wanted a girlfriend. (Or two, because he wasn't exactly sure why that wasn't ok.)

I wasn't really mad when I found out the PUA stuff was a superficial ploy. I couldn't figure out what made him tick, but the love was real, and that was enough. The problem was, he excelled at getting women into bed, but he had no idea what to do with them after that. He also told childish, cowardly, transparent lies, and ruined people's reputations because he misunderstood their motivations. Add hurt feelings from his PUA schtick into the mix, and you've got a guy whose life is a train wreck, with a lynch mob after him. I was heartbroken, but I still persuaded a guy with a tire iron to not go beat his skull in. I couldn't explain why at the time, but I knew he didn't deserve that.

Long story short: the PUA stuff might get you laid, but it might also get you killed. This guy lived - to reproduce with a psychotic drug addict, and it cost him a few million to get rid of her. So gentlemen, please just be yourselves.

Of course. But actually the whole industry and terminology is based around men who haven't learnt these skills. There is a cause and effect element here, on the one hand modern society, by reverting to more of the level playing field of dating - and therefore something closer to the natural situation than family arrangements as has been the case for the last 2000 years - has meant men who have probably lost the genetic advantage in this game now need to find ways of getting these mental attitudes back. Equally technology may have made it easier to be more socially isolated than in the past and be socially inapt. And this is just for NTs - the whole issue of more autistic people, which is a growing population is another issue altogether - and very much the target of the PUA literature. The convergence of these factors, and the growing demand of a significant proportion of men to learn these manipulation skills that they didn't pick up naturally has created a market for it. But like all products of late-capitalism there is something essentially vulgar and tacky about it which puts me off strongly against its promoters and practitioners. Someone who is genuinely classy I think we use these techniques without needing to turn them into a socio-political discourse, or an identity.

Apparently female PUA's do exist. After a google search, I found this book about seduction techniques for women. The woman who wrote it claims to of learned them from Neil Strauss, author of "The Game":

http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Rules-Attraction-Keep/dp/1402266529

I thought staring was supposed to be creepy. I imagine that once you got a girl's interest going, staring goes from "creepy" to "disarming and erotic"?

You NTs are so confusing!

I've never had a PUA try anything on me, but reading about some of the techniques makes me cringe. I've had a few guys come on extremely strong, sensual, and romantic from the get-go, but since they also wound up being extremely unstable I assumed they were just, you know, unstable and started reading it all as code for that.

Yeah, my stomach turned reading the OP's post about the guy singing in her ear.

If I ever resort to that, feel free to lynch me.

The lip-watching was flattering, but also amusing. He wasn't hearing a single word, and wasn't even trying to pretend. He was fixated on figuring out a way to kiss me ( . . . or something). Like a little kid staring at a cookie jar, imagining how he could get away with devouring them all in one go.

He's a huge dude, kind of scary looking, but there were many "cute little boy" moments like that. Strange, but genuine. Raw. He couldn't hide his thoughts. I doubt an NT could pull it off. I guess that's why I gambled that, despite all the red flags, he wasn't a standard slimy PUA. He wasn't.

I know NTs are confusing. Take heart - I'm a weird one!

Yes. He wasn't really good at it and revealed that he was a creepy dude within a few days. And that was that. I have more self-respect than to stick with someone desperate and strange. No offense to auties or unconventional people... I only mean those who are obviously narcissistic and controlling =/