nature of attraction

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hyperlexian
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20 Apr 2012, 6:40 pm

Kurgan wrote:

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Kurgan wrote:

Fat women are never hourglass shaped, though; they're either apple or pear shaped.

I was hourglass shaped at 215 lbs, thanks. My tummy was completely flat.

Try again, maybe?

Pics or it didn't happen. A flat stomach doesn't always mean hourglass shaped.

That being said, if your tummy was flat at 215 lbs, then you're more muscular than most female bodybuilders.

having more muscle doesn't equal flatness. increased muscle size can actually make a person appear fatter and not thinner in some cases.

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rabbittss
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20 Apr 2012, 6:42 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

rabbittss wrote:

Since when did basic things such as Gender, Skin Colour, weight, age range, and religious preference become "Picky". Altering my view on any of these things would require me to effectively change who I am. I would have to adopt a different culture, or adopt a religion which I don't believe in, or in the case of obese people, overcome my gag reflex. These things aren't being "Picky".

Picky would be me saying I'd only date a girl who ate cauliflower on thursdays and who only liked going to the movies on sunday afternoons.

And yet, according to you, your selection criteria are so strict that only a tiny fraction of people meet them. Whether or not the criteria themselves are considered by you to be picky, when they, in combination, result in a severely-limited dating pool, NO, you've no "right" to feel bitter or irritated, because it's YOU who refuse to date anyone else.

rabbittss wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, I'm a victim of circumstance. I didn't choose to be born where I am at, I didn't choose for my parents to pick to move here, I didn't do any of this, and I'm sure as hell "Not going to make the best of it".

You choose who you're willing to date. End of. If you're not going to make the best of it, then don't whine about your lack of prospects.

If you're not going to be understanding of my opinions, then don't read or reply to my posts.

Joker
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20 Apr 2012, 6:43 pm

I can't say I agree with anything Kurgan has stated and as a guy a bit offened by his statements.

ValentineWiggin
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20 Apr 2012, 6:45 pm

Kurgan wrote:

All women ovulating aren't equally fertile. Science has proven MANY TIMES that obese women are LESS FERTILE not INFERTILE. Less fertile is still undesireable to the Darwinian mindsets of every man.

You can't argue from fertility while advancing current standards of beauty as evolutionarily-based.
The majority of hollywood and lad's mag types are on the low end of normal, and many of them are underweight.

You're in fact arguing that not fertile is preferable to fertile.

Make up your mind- you're arguing nonsense.

Kurgan wrote:

A woman is at her most fertile when she is not obese or underweight. The ideal body fat level means that she is neither; this is why it is called "ideal".

Except "obese and underweight" are statistical categories based on height-weight ratios- it doesn't even take "body fat level" into account,
and the current en vogue aesthetic for women is bordering on underweight, in some cases clearly cutting into it.
I'm not sure what rock you live under where you're blissfully unaware of the extreme measures women have to undertake to attain that aesthetic, in order to fight against millions of years of evolution.

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ValentineWiggin
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20 Apr 2012, 6:46 pm

rabbittss wrote:

If you're not going to be understanding of my opinions, then don't read or reply to my posts.

I was asking for clarification, really, on why you feel you have a right to feel "irritated" and "victimized" based on dating criteria YOU choose to strictly adhere to.

ValentineWiggin
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20 Apr 2012, 6:47 pm

Joker wrote:

I can't say I agree with anything Kurgan has stated and as a guy a bit offened by his statements.

You're just "suppressing your instincts".

Or lying.

So is anyone who exists outside his narrow bastardization of evolutionary psychology.

rabbittss
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20 Apr 2012, 6:57 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

rabbittss wrote:

If you're not going to be understanding of my opinions, then don't read or reply to my posts.

I was asking for clarification, really, on why you feel you have a right to feel "irritated" and "victimized" based on dating criteria YOU choose to strictly adhere to.

You seem to be under a misapprehension. I don't choose these things. These are factors which were determined by my birth.

I don't understand why you seem to lack the ability to comprehend why I'm upset at being stuck in a place where I have nothing in common with nearly 80% of the population, religiously, culturally, politically.

Have you ever been to the south east? Between the rampant and widespread exultation of ignorance, paranoia and superstition which pervades the region, it is also afflicted with among the worst obesity rates in the country. I'm not talking about people being 10-30lbs overweight. I'm talking about 21 year old girls who weigh 400lbs and think smoking meth while pregnant is a good way to lose weight! People who wouldn't read a book if their life depended on it, yet will tell you all the answers you need to your problems are in the Bible. People who think playing the goddamn lottery is a valid retirement plan. People who think the phrase "All you can eat" is a challenge.

Even if I were open to dating outside my "Race", It wouldn't marginally improve my chances. Maybe, MAYBE, it would add a few thousand more people, But the difference between finding 1 out of 10,000 people or 1 out of 5,000 people out of nearly 10 million are only twice as good. It's still a needle in a haystack.

Kurgan
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20 Apr 2012, 7:09 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

A woman with a bodyfat level of 21% is more fertile than a woman with a bodyfat percentage of 40. A woman's fertility peaks at her ideal fat range, which is anywhere between 20 and 30% bodyfat. Even going slightly below her ideal body fat level isn't unhealthy.

Quote:

You're in fact arguing that not fertile is preferable to fertile.

No I'm not. You're attacking straw men, unless you're seriously claiming that a woman's fertility increases exponentially once she enters the obese range.

Quote:

Except "obese and underweight" are statistical categories based on height-weight ratios- it doesn't even take "body fat level" into account,

Nope. Very little of a persons weight is bone mass, and with extreme genetics, a woman can only gain 5 lbs of lean muscle the first year (not taking muscle memory into account).

Quote:

and the current en vogue aesthetic for women is bordering on underweight, in some cases clearly cutting into it.
I'm not sure what rock you live under where you're blissfully unaware of the extreme measures women have to undertake to attain that aesthetic, in order to fight against millions of years of evolution.

Like I previously stated, preferences in appearance have always existed and will always exist. Men have always prefered more feminine and fertile women.

For a 20-something woman to get down to 20% bodyfat, she can either spend 15 hours a week on Zumba Fitness or fours hours a week on moderate intensity cardio. Take your pick. Both of course require the classic calories in vs. calories out equation.

It's a lot harder for a man to obtain a physique like Hugh Jackman in Wolverine, who had HALF of the ideal body fat percentage of a man.

Last edited by Kurgan on 20 Apr 2012, 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
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20 Apr 2012, 7:13 pm

rabbittss wrote:

I don't understand why you seem to lack the ability to comprehend why I'm upset at being stuck in a place where I have nothing in common with nearly 80% of the population, religiously, culturally, politically.

I'm in a similar situation, being a radical leftist in a red state.
But then, I don't complain about my lack of prospects here, when it's MY CHOICE to not date people who aren't similarly-affiliated.

rabbittss wrote:

Have you ever been to the south east?

I live in Kentucky.

rabbittss wrote:

Between the rampant and widespread exultation of ignorance, paranoia and superstition which pervades the region, it is also afflicted with among the worst obesity rates in the country. I'm not talking about people being 10-30lbs overweight. I'm talking about 21 year old girls who weigh 400lbs and think smoking meth while pregnant is a good way to lose weight! People who wouldn't read a book if their life depended on it, yet will tell you all the answers you need to your problems are in the Bible. People who think playing the goddamn lottery is a valid retirement plan. People who think the phrase "All you can eat" is a challenge.

I can empathize with your feelings of ostracization from your culture, but not with the idea that obesity is some sort of moral failure, or that someone who's obese isn't worth me dating, and CERTAINLY not the idea that if that was my choice, I'd have a right to feel "bitter" about having made it.

Joker
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20 Apr 2012, 7:19 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Joker wrote:

I can't say I agree with anything Kurgan has stated and as a guy a bit offened by his statements.

You're just "suppressing your instincts".

Or lying.

So is anyone who exists outside his narrow bastardization of evolutionary psychology.

I am not lying I can't really agree with what he is saying I have male and female instincts. Since I am Bigender is causes conflict with my instincts and my female persona is the dominate one.

rabbittss
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20 Apr 2012, 7:20 pm

I don't feel bitter about having made a choice. I feel bitter about having to have made the choice. I'm bitter because my idiotic parents chose to live in Georgia instead of living some place better. They had a choice, they chose to live here because it was "Cheap", not realizing that the reason it was cheap was because of lax labor laws.. Needless to say, it worked out stunningly and they both wound up falling precipitously from the mobile middle class into the gutter of poverty in which I am now forced to reside. The only consolation is the fact that I have the internet now and can at least see what the rest of the world is like even if I can't manage to escape to it.

Yes, Obesity can be caused by health problems or genetics or whatever. But it can also be caused by drinking to many sodas, eating to much unhealthy food, or sitting around passively consuming mindless television. Obesity doesn't have to be a Moral Failing, but it can be the result of a series of moral failings.

The tendency of people in the south to "leave it in gods hands" cannot be ignored either. Why bother attempting to better yourself when you're going to be perfect in Heaven anyway? Much better to just sit around and wait for the magic sky man to fix all your problems.

ValentineWiggin
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20 Apr 2012, 7:21 pm

Kurgan wrote:

A woman with a bodyfat level of 21% is more fertile than a woman with a bodyfat percentage of 40.

And a woman with a bodyfat level of 27% is more fertile than a woman with one of 17%, yet the former is closer to the average American woman, and the latter is closer to what's idealized by our culture.

You need to go back and reread the questions I've put to you regarding the female aesthetic idolized in our culture versus the one most American women have, in terms of which is healthier from a fertility point of view (hint: it's not the one which is frequently UNDERweight).
You're starting to appear as if you're not interested in substantive discussion, and more in continuously regurgitating irrelevancies.

Make one more post which fails to address that basic question of the actual-vs.-the ideal (mating is evolutionarily, um, preferable to not mating)
or which makes up stories about how X exercise will result in X body fat percentage as if it's incontrovertible fact (lulz),
and I will assume this the case and stop trying to engage you at all.

You can have a one-sided conversation without my help.

scubasteve
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20 Apr 2012, 7:23 pm

rabbittss wrote:

People who think the phrase "All you can eat" is a challenge.

You mean like Adam Richman (Man vs. Food)? ...Who has a master's degree from Yale? ...What a morally bereft loser. :roll:

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20 Apr 2012, 7:26 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:

Mention one Playboy Bunny, Bond Girl or Hooters calendar girl with 17% body fat.

Again:

Quote:

You need to go back and reread the questions I've put to you regarding the female aesthetic idolized in our culture versus the one most American women have, in terms of which is healthier from a fertility point of view (hint: it's not the one which is frequently UNDERweight).

It's the one who's closest to 23% body fat.

Quote:

Make one more post which fails to address that basic question of the actual-vs.-the ideal (mating is evolutionarily, um, preferable to not mating)
or which makes up stories about how X exercise will result in X body fat percentage as if it's incontrovertible fact (lulz),
and I will assume this the case and stop trying to engage you at all.

You can have a one-sided conversation without my help.

I have already proven my point; men will instinctively target more feminine and fertile girls. Without these instincts, humanity would breed itself into a corner in a matter of 3-4 generations.

Last edited by Kurgan on 20 Apr 2012, 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

rabbittss
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20 Apr 2012, 7:28 pm

scubasteve wrote:

rabbittss wrote:

People who think the phrase "All you can eat" is a challenge.

You mean like Adam Richmond? ...Who has a master's degree from Yale? ...What a morally bereft loser. :roll:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/ ... man-v-food This pretty much sums up my feelings on Adam Richman. He's an actor who figured out that if he did, what is effectively the equivalent of shoving random things up his ass, people would watch. He's not any different from the guys on Jack Ass.

His moral failing is the fact that he is willing to encourage self destructive behaviour in order to make money. Imagine if you will, a show about smoking 30 cigarettes in a single sitting. I can hear the howls of outrage already.

Last edited by rabbittss on 20 Apr 2012, 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ValentineWiggin
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20 Apr 2012, 7:29 pm

rabbittss wrote:

I don't feel bitter about having made a choice. I feel bitter about having to have made the choice.

What "made you" make the choice to not date fat people, for instance? What external force acted upon you?

rabbittss wrote:

Yes, Obesity can be caused by health problems or genetics or whatever. But it can also be caused by drinking to many sodas, eating to much unhealthy food, or sitting around passively consuming mindless television. Obesity doesn't have to be a Moral Failing, but it can be the result of a series of moral failings.

So, then, we're actually not talking about OBESITY, we're talking about people who have X, Y, Z character flaw (which can result in obesity) are we not?

I undertook every healthy means and several unhealthy means when I was obese to lose weight, and simply couldn't.
What, then, would you have had against dating me, for instance?

rabbittss wrote:

The tendency of people in the south to "leave it in gods hands" cannot be ignored either. Why bother attempting to better yourself when you're going to be perfect in Heaven anyway? Much better to just sit around and wait for the magic sky man to fix all your problems.

I resent the implication, in the context of the current discussion, that killing myself to achieve some "ideal" or "normal" or "healthy" or whatever the buzzword of the week is for something for me which requires outright starvation is "attempting to better myself". Moreover, I'm from a relatively-privileged background-

most people in the South are disproportionately poor, disproportionately uneducated, and sneering at them for being at the mercy of a food-dessert-ridden area governed by heavily-subsidized chains of food supply which leave them little actual choice of what foods to buy given their limited means strikes me somewhat elitist.

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