What is the main reason why guys have to do the approaching?
"Man......this is what I'm talking about! You act like taking the initiative is some kind of burden or drudgery. Most normal, red-blooded guys enjoy taking the initiative and do it automatically. It's not a matter of "have to". A normal testosterone level and, at least, average intelligence, should ensure that a guy has more than enough assertiveness and initiative to get and maintain a relationship.
It's sad that any guy would see simple initiative in meeting and dating women as a chore.
I don't know if it's due to hormones/pesticides in foods; or faulty gender-bender conditioning; or simply evolution (which isn't always "progressive"), but there seems to be somewhat of a trend where guys in each successive generation are increasingly being feminized to the point of total inability.
There are very, very few guys who will enjoy a satisfying relationship worthy of the term as a result of passive acquiescence to a woman's initiative. It does happen, but it's rare and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's up to the guys, in most circumstances, to go out and initiate dates and relationships. I initiated all mine. That's the way it ideally works.
Agreed. But now there are huge numbers of available women contrasted with guys almost everywhere on earth. Men are actually the rarer commodity today, so simple assertiveness should guarantee a woman for every guy who pursues it. Don't count on women initiating relationships, even when a woman wants a certain guy. They are simply less likely to pursue it, given their biochemistry and, to a lesser extent, their conditioning."
I would love to make that man squeal as I break his f****' neck!! !! !! !! !! !! !

If you read the books I pointed out, you'd see that the mountain of just "asking a girl out" isn't all that bad when you work out a good way to start things off in a harmless way, after you've gotten your act together and are being calm, relaxed, and making everything pleasant around you. I know you've been hurting a long time, but there IS a way out. So either work on it, give up, or move on. You can't say how terrible it is if you haven't tried everything...
WantToHaveALife
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"Man......this is what I'm talking about! You act like taking the initiative is some kind of burden or drudgery. Most normal, red-blooded guys enjoy taking the initiative and do it automatically. It's not a matter of "have to". A normal testosterone level and, at least, average intelligence, should ensure that a guy has more than enough assertiveness and initiative to get and maintain a relationship.
It's sad that any guy would see simple initiative in meeting and dating women as a chore.
I don't know if it's due to hormones/pesticides in foods; or faulty gender-bender conditioning; or simply evolution (which isn't always "progressive"), but there seems to be somewhat of a trend where guys in each successive generation are increasingly being feminized to the point of total inability.
There are very, very few guys who will enjoy a satisfying relationship worthy of the term as a result of passive acquiescence to a woman's initiative. It does happen, but it's rare and it's not necessarily a good thing. It's up to the guys, in most circumstances, to go out and initiate dates and relationships. I initiated all mine. That's the way it ideally works.
Agreed. But now there are huge numbers of available women contrasted with guys almost everywhere on earth. Men are actually the rarer commodity today, so simple assertiveness should guarantee a woman for every guy who pursues it. Don't count on women initiating relationships, even when a woman wants a certain guy. They are simply less likely to pursue it, given their biochemistry and, to a lesser extent, their conditioning."
I would love to make that man squeal as I break his f****' neck!! !! !! !! !! !! !

If you read the books I pointed out, you'd see that the mountain of just "asking a girl out" isn't all that bad when you work out a good way to start things off in a harmless way, after you've gotten your act together and are being calm, relaxed, and making everything pleasant around you. I know you've been hurting a long time, but there IS a way out. So either work on it, give up, or move on. You can't say how terrible it is if you haven't tried everything...
actually, "asking a girl out" literally that part is not the hardest part, it's more of when is the right time to ask them out, and most of all, it's approaching them, making the moves and starting conversations, talking to them, flirting with them, because it's easy for me to run out of things to say, talk about, too many awkward silences, pauses, i'm more better at the first initial, introductory conversations but then all of the other conversations, further moves down the road thats when it gets tough, basically what I mean is like, it's like guys have to have skills in order to get a date, a girlfriend or hook-up, but girls, they don't need skills because it just happens for them, it's like from the moment girls hit puberty they can get a boyfriend or date, hook-up from day one because most of the time, guys get attracted to them from the moment guys lock eyes on them
Haven't read any of the other responses but
In my case, it's a safety issue.
Chances are, (even still, although I haven't tried in quite a few years) that I could get a hetero guy to have sex with me if I wanted to.
But, I am discovering that I've always been extremely vulnerable to - shall we say - getting "used" in relationships - in ways that are not conducive to my health.
And also that once having opened the door to sexual intimacy in a relationship, I am essentially relinquishing a good bit of control over my own reactions and emotions by allowing it to happen.
This is potentially a good thing, but I've learned not to allow it to happen without (at a minimum) being certain the guy is actually interested in me to begin with - rather than just "of course, I will have free sex with the hott dancer girl as long as she is offering, although I would never approach her on my own initiative because I don't really like her/she's weird/not attracted/etc."
Because I can't afford to unleash my emotions into a situation where the guy goes into it with the whole intention to just get what he can.
As it is, that can happen anyway I suppose, but I remember a guy telling me once how he had no responsibility for what happened in his relationship with a certain woman, because she had been the one to seduce him. Not a total creep but just a regular guy, actually he had a lot of women in his life, wouldn't you know it. Just that some of them didn't know they weren't worth anything to him.
Honestly I am avoiding relationships at this point, because I apparently must be unconsciously encouraging people to use me (to do stuff for them & pay for them) otherwise it would not have been happening repeatedly.
Also I know this isn't exactly what the thread is about, but you want to be turned down by someone if they are not attracted to you.
[Whatever is your threshold of attraction, you have to admit that there are people that will not fall into its boundaries, no matter what.]
Also ~ the nature of a (typical) physical relationship between a man & a woman is invader vs. being invaded; someone on the invader side of the equation probably wouldn't understand this but there is a level of trust that has to be reached before a reasonable assurance of physical safety is indicated, that isn't really necessary for a (typical) guy to have before getting involved.
Not even considering the possibility of creating people (it's much much easier to walk away from someone else's pregnancy than it is when you are pregnant yourself) ~
The stakes are different. Risk benefit kind of a thing. That's why.
WantToHaveALife
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In my case, it's a safety issue.
Chances are, (even still, although I haven't tried in quite a few years) that I could get a hetero guy to have sex with me if I wanted to.
But, I am discovering that I've always been extremely vulnerable to - shall we say - getting "used" in relationships - in ways that are not conducive to my health.
And also that once having opened the door to sexual intimacy in a relationship, I am essentially relinquishing a good bit of control over my own reactions and emotions by allowing it to happen.
This is potentially a good thing, but I've learned not to allow it to happen without (at a minimum) being certain the guy is actually interested in me to begin with - rather than just "of course, I will have free sex with the hott dancer girl as long as she is offering, although I would never approach her on my own initiative because I don't really like her/she's weird/not attracted/etc."
Because I can't afford to unleash my emotions into a situation where the guy goes into it with the whole intention to just get what he can.
As it is, that can happen anyway I suppose, but I remember a guy telling me once how he had no responsibility for what happened in his relationship with a certain woman, because she had been the one to seduce him. Not a total creep but just a regular guy, actually he had a lot of women in his life, wouldn't you know it. Just that some of them didn't know they weren't worth anything to him.
Honestly I am avoiding relationships at this point, because I apparently must be unconsciously encouraging people to use me (to do stuff for them & pay for them) otherwise it would not have been happening repeatedly.
Also I know this isn't exactly what the thread is about, but you want to be turned down by someone if they are not attracted to you.
[Whatever is your threshold of attraction, you have to admit that there are people that will not fall into its boundaries, no matter what.]
Also ~ the nature of a (typical) physical relationship between a man & a woman is invader vs. being invaded; someone on the invader side of the equation probably wouldn't understand this but there is a level of trust that has to be reached before a reasonable assurance of physical safety is indicated, that isn't really necessary for a (typical) guy to have before getting involved.
Not even considering the possibility of creating people (it's much much easier to walk away from someone else's pregnancy than it is when you are pregnant yourself) ~
The stakes are different. Risk benefit kind of a thing. That's why.

if only i was taller and physically stronger, i wish i could instigate a fight in a bar to take out my anger and frustration
In my case, it's a safety issue.
Chances are, (even still, although I haven't tried in quite a few years) that I could get a hetero guy to have sex with me if I wanted to.
But, I am discovering that I've always been extremely vulnerable to - shall we say - getting "used" in relationships - in ways that are not conducive to my health.
And also that once having opened the door to sexual intimacy in a relationship, I am essentially relinquishing a good bit of control over my own reactions and emotions by allowing it to happen.
This is potentially a good thing, but I've learned not to allow it to happen without (at a minimum) being certain the guy is actually interested in me to begin with - rather than just "of course, I will have free sex with the hott dancer girl as long as she is offering, although I would never approach her on my own initiative because I don't really like her/she's weird/not attracted/etc."
Because I can't afford to unleash my emotions into a situation where the guy goes into it with the whole intention to just get what he can.
As it is, that can happen anyway I suppose, but I remember a guy telling me once how he had no responsibility for what happened in his relationship with a certain woman, because she had been the one to seduce him. Not a total creep but just a regular guy, actually he had a lot of women in his life, wouldn't you know it. Just that some of them didn't know they weren't worth anything to him.
Honestly I am avoiding relationships at this point, because I apparently must be unconsciously encouraging people to use me (to do stuff for them & pay for them) otherwise it would not have been happening repeatedly.
Also I know this isn't exactly what the thread is about, but you want to be turned down by someone if they are not attracted to you.
[Whatever is your threshold of attraction, you have to admit that there are people that will not fall into its boundaries, no matter what.]
Also ~ the nature of a (typical) physical relationship between a man & a woman is invader vs. being invaded; someone on the invader side of the equation probably wouldn't understand this but there is a level of trust that has to be reached before a reasonable assurance of physical safety is indicated, that isn't really necessary for a (typical) guy to have before getting involved.
Not even considering the possibility of creating people (it's much much easier to walk away from someone else's pregnancy than it is when you are pregnant yourself) ~
The stakes are different. Risk benefit kind of a thing. That's why.

if only i was taller and physically stronger, i wish i could instigate a fight in a bar to take out my anger and frustration
Join a boxing club - they have classes for people of all sizes.
WantToHaveALife
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Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,214
Location: California, United States
In my case, it's a safety issue.
Chances are, (even still, although I haven't tried in quite a few years) that I could get a hetero guy to have sex with me if I wanted to.
But, I am discovering that I've always been extremely vulnerable to - shall we say - getting "used" in relationships - in ways that are not conducive to my health.
And also that once having opened the door to sexual intimacy in a relationship, I am essentially relinquishing a good bit of control over my own reactions and emotions by allowing it to happen.
This is potentially a good thing, but I've learned not to allow it to happen without (at a minimum) being certain the guy is actually interested in me to begin with - rather than just "of course, I will have free sex with the hott dancer girl as long as she is offering, although I would never approach her on my own initiative because I don't really like her/she's weird/not attracted/etc."
Because I can't afford to unleash my emotions into a situation where the guy goes into it with the whole intention to just get what he can.
As it is, that can happen anyway I suppose, but I remember a guy telling me once how he had no responsibility for what happened in his relationship with a certain woman, because she had been the one to seduce him. Not a total creep but just a regular guy, actually he had a lot of women in his life, wouldn't you know it. Just that some of them didn't know they weren't worth anything to him.
Honestly I am avoiding relationships at this point, because I apparently must be unconsciously encouraging people to use me (to do stuff for them & pay for them) otherwise it would not have been happening repeatedly.
Also I know this isn't exactly what the thread is about, but you want to be turned down by someone if they are not attracted to you.
[Whatever is your threshold of attraction, you have to admit that there are people that will not fall into its boundaries, no matter what.]
Also ~ the nature of a (typical) physical relationship between a man & a woman is invader vs. being invaded; someone on the invader side of the equation probably wouldn't understand this but there is a level of trust that has to be reached before a reasonable assurance of physical safety is indicated, that isn't really necessary for a (typical) guy to have before getting involved.
Not even considering the possibility of creating people (it's much much easier to walk away from someone else's pregnancy than it is when you are pregnant yourself) ~
The stakes are different. Risk benefit kind of a thing. That's why.

if only i was taller and physically stronger, i wish i could instigate a fight in a bar to take out my anger and frustration
Join a boxing club - they have classes for people of all sizes.
yeah i probably should
Right, so, for you personally that moment of giving up control that's difficult/risky is at the stage where the relationship connects at a physical level?
If you could understand for a guy that moment of where all control over emotion & reaction is lost / transferred at the point of approaching? Not even down the line, it's literally ringing the doorbell.
A guy wouldn't approach you unless he is attracted to you. It's the most straightforward part of dating for a guy - I see, I like, I go after. It's literally that simple.
Personally, I feel you've got the wrong concept of a physical relationship / intercourse there, it's not me Tarzan, you Jane. There's more to sex than simply intercourse, pheromones, spooning, oral, etc..there's so much more to sex than just intercourse.
Got to be honest here, but I think you have the wrong ideas on intimate relationships due to previous negative experiences.
WantToHaveALife
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Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
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DialAForAwesome
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Gender: Male
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I agree. If there was "someone for everyone" then hermits and cat ladies wouldn't exist.
The truth is, there might be someone for everyone but it doesn't mean everyone will end up with someone, which is why I hate that phrase. Hell, all the men in my family ended up with women they didn't want to be with, just so they weren't lonely (my dad married my mom to protect me, even though he hated her guts). A guy like me with no looks and no money will have an even tougher time with this, so I'm not looking forward to the future.
_________________
I don't trust anyone because I'm cynical.
I'm cynical because I don't trust anyone.
WantToHaveALife
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It is true, but sometimes your someone is already taken by someone else.
i often suicidal
Might not want to advertise that either.
WantToHaveALife
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Joined: 16 Sep 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
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Location: California, United States

It is true, but sometimes your someone is already taken by someone else.
i often suicidal
Might not want to advertise that either.
another thing i don't like is how too many people argue that real men have the power, when in reality, women do the choosing

It is true, but sometimes your someone is already taken by someone else.
i often suicidal
You're going to have a hard time finding someone of either gender who wants to get enmeshed with someone who might off themselves and leave them all alone. Get some therapy and find some happiness in your own life, before you start looking for someone else to share your life with.

It is true, but sometimes your someone is already taken by someone else.
i often suicidal
Might not want to advertise that either.
another thing i don't like is how too many people argue that real men have the power, when in reality, women do the choosing

How often have I heard men scoping out every woman that they know, ranking them as a "3," or a "7," or whatever, or speculating about thier breasts, or their butt, or how they behave when they have sex? How often have you heard them complaining about women being "too fat," or whatever? Even guys who are single, and want to be in a relationship? Here's a hint: I hear it a lot. A guy who is single is almost always choosing to be single because he won't consider relationships with women who don't look like models.

It is true, but sometimes your someone is already taken by someone else.
i often suicidal
Might not want to advertise that either.
another thing i don't like is how too many people argue that real men have the power, when in reality, women do the choosing

How often have I heard men scoping out every woman that they know, ranking them as a "3," or a "7," or whatever, or speculating about thier breasts, or their butt, or how they behave when they have sex? How often have you heard them complaining about women being "too fat," or whatever? Even guys who are single, and want to be in a relationship? Here's a hint: I hear it a lot. A guy who is single is almost always choosing to be single because he won't consider relationships with women who don't look like models.
Ok. I won't say that you are wrong. It's truth that I usually approach girls who are in my opinion "9"s and "10"s. Almost all of them want to be friends with me. They like me but not in a sexual way. So, they reject me.
The other girls who aren't 9s or 10s why don't they ask me out? I wouldn't say no, in the first place..
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