How do you guys do the "no contact" thing?

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Rephrase.
As TwilightPrincess advised elsewhere, use more "I". Not "author is an idiot" but "I don't know where the author got this from". Not "people act illogical" but "I don't understand why people act like this". Not "you misinterpret me" but "I didn't mean this, I meant <what you meant>".
By the way, people often do act illogical - we need to accept it as a fact.

If you want explanations, ask for explanations instead of complaining for things. Complainments are handled differently from explanation requests.


You don't seem as stuck in your room as some other members here, so it must not be that bad.

Well, the summary of that message is as follows:

1. The reasons why it doesn't work have nothing to do with the no-contact thing; it has to do with three other things (my insecurities, geographical distance, and religion)

2. During no-contact she has "moved on" and thats why she doesn't want to work on them

So the question here is the concept of "moving on". What, exactly, happens to people's brain when they "move on" that prevents their brain from making an effort?

I guess if she *didn't* write some of the sentences she did, I could have hypothesized "well, when I went no-contact, I gave her one more thing to be upset about so it was like last straw that broke the camels back". But, given what she said, I can't say this: she told me "its okay that you didn't see my text message last month". In other words, no I didn't do anything "new" that was wrong; its just that when she "moved on" on "her" end it somehow made it impossible for her to want to work on anything. Which, again, brings a big question: What happens to people's brains when they move on?

"Moving on" means "deciding the thing wasn't worth the effort".
This is what happens when people "move on": They find their previous goal not worth any more effort and they switch to other goals.

Exactly.

Or in more plain words, when games make a girl move on, you messed things up pretty badly.

Useful games are games that make people put in MORE effort, not less.

You used the word "deciding". Now, "decisions" are based on information. So if I corrected a certain "information" her "decision" should change back -- if it was in fact a decision. So if it doesn't change back, thats what makes me ask "did something chemically happened to her brain or something".

Okay, lets spell this out:

x= The concerns that she had BEFORE the no-contact has started; namely, my insecurites + faith + geographical distance

y= The fact that I cut off contact

Now here is what happened:

Stage 1: The only issue was x. She didn't move on yet
Stage 2: It became x+y and she moved on
State 3: She saw that it only x, after all. Yet she still moved on.

Now, both during State 1 and during Stage 3 it was only x. Yet during stage 1 she didn't move on but during stage 3 she did. So, tell me, yes or no: is x by itself enough to move on or not? Stage 1 suggests no, stage 3 suggests yes. So it makes no sense.

So logic says that stage 2 must have played some role. But, based on what she said, it didn't: she said "its okay that you didn't see my message". Of course she said it in Stage 3, not on Stage 2. But since -- on Stage 3 -- she realized it was okay, then why didn't she want to go back to what she did in Stage 1?

Now, here is a logical scenario that would explain it.

a) Suppose, during the stage 2 when she decided to move on, she took a huge dose of long-lasting drug. Then, during the stage 3, when she realized she shouldn't have taken that drug, it was too late: she can't extract that drug from her system.

b) Suppose, during Stage 2, she found somebody else. Then, during stage 3, she was already committed to that other person. Again, nothing could be done

c) Suppose during Stage 2 she found a job in another country which she wouldn't have taken if it was "x" but she took it because it was x+y. Then, at stage 3 when she realized it was x, it was too late. She already has that job.

But since she didn't say it was any of those things, thats why it makes no sense how "moving on" exactly worked.

Dude... human beings are not math equations. How many ways can people spell this out for you? SHE. WASN'T. INTERESTED. Stop trying to nit pick everything to death. Talk a walk outside or something. Geeze.

You definitely overly complicated the thing.
Wheather x alone was sufficient and only she needed some time to process it or x+y did matter, or, most likely to me, x+(your tendency to overly complicate things and not give up)+(time to process it) or whatever else... she made a decision that she doesn't want to put any more effort into relationship with you and reversing it would be extremely hard.

Think of people's decisions as systems with huge hysteresis. Once one made their mind, changing it would require much more than removing the force that originally drew them there.

I was assuming that my tendency to overcomplicate things was part of x?

I guess I almost said that "time" is part of y, but I guess not quite: she still had time to process it regardless of the reason behind it.

So lets take the following hypothetical. Suppose -- instead of simply disappearing without an explanation -- I were to have an important conference abroad. And suppose for whatever reason I couldn't be in contact with her from abroad -- lets say my phone doesn't work abroad, and they don't have that many computers around (lets say I went to third world country). And also lets say that I warned her ahead of time about it. Here is the question: once I was back, would she have ended it due to x, since she had time to process it? Or would have she still been trying to make it work, since y was never part of the picture?



Well, if I think of classical systems of this type I can usually track down what is behind it. Like in case of a classical magnet, sure I can track it down up to minuscule detail. I guess quantum mechanically its different: since there is space non-locality I am sure there is time non-locality too. And thats by the way the main reason I decided to become a physicist: quantum mechanics makes no sense and I want to explain it. So are you saying humans are analogoues to quantum systems of this type as opposed to classical ones? If so, then the question is: how do they make sense to themselves? I am sure "they" know why they do certain things the way they do them.

No way to know since we've lost the opportunity to find out experimentally.

What works in quantum mechanics: equations and experiments. If they agree with each other, we "understand" quantum mechanics.

Usually they don't. Yes, it was quite a discovery for me, too. They just act according to how they feel, most likely completely unaware of any mechanics underlying it.

Update: Today she graded those 4 problems. So, as I mentioned earlier, its 5 points per problem if I do it perfectly. I need 105 points for C, 120 points for B, 135 points for A and 150 points for A+. But since I got partial credit on some of the problems, the points I had weren't divisible by 5. So I had 139 points up till today. Today those 4 problems were graded. So, *if* they were perfect, I would have had 159 points. But they weren't perfect. So I have 157 points instead. But its still more than 150, so I am still getting A+. And no, I haven't turned in any other problems besides those, nor am I ever going to, so 157 it is.

Actually I am *glad* I have 157 points as opposed to 159 or anything else for that matter. Let me explain the history behind it. I don't know about countries other than Russia and the US, but, as far as these two countries are concerned, in Russia they distinguish schools by numbers and in the US they give them names. By "schools" I mean elementary school, middle school and high school, nothing above. I mean, as far as universities, in Russia they give them names too (there is no such thing as university number such and such). But with schools they number them.

In any case, back in Russia I was going to the school number 734, but I was trying to transfer into the school number 57, and I didn't succeed. The reason I wanted to transfer is that school number 57 is what they call a "mathematical school". Yes, they teach all subjects, but they are advanced in math. Now, unlike other schools, the school number 57 had a selective entrance process. So they would give us an exam -- but exam wasn't about testing the knowledge but rather it was about testing our ability to solve really difficult problems. Then, out of the first exam they would select the best students who would go to the second exam, out of the second exam they would select the best students who would go to the third exam, etc. And then the best students from the last exam will get admitted. In other words, it is sort of like math comeptition, except that its local: its only among like 20 students or so, whoever wants to get into that school. So I attempted to get in probably around three times: at the end of completting 6-th grade, then at the end of completting 7-th grade, then at the end of completting 8-th grade. I failed all three times, and then I came to the US after the 8-th grade so thats how it ended.

In any case, one thing I noticed is that they liked to use number 57 in their math problems. I guess it was a type of pride thing, a pride of them being one of the best mathematical schools I guess? So, long after I moved to the US, I use the number 57 from time to time to keep up with their tradition and sort of send a subliminal message like "hey I am still good in math". For example, a lot of my passwords have the number 57 at the end.

Now, going back to girls. One daydream that I had -- which I never carried out -- was to attach number 57 to my going no-contact. The original version of that daydream is this. Back in 2005 a certain girl rejected me because my mom shelters me so presumably I want to be sheltered which she can't handle. But on my end of the line I know its not the case: even though my mom shelters me (constantly!! !) that doesn't mean I like it: on the contrary, I resent that fact. So why would I ever expect this from a girl? But I never had a chance to communicate it to her. Yes, we met to talk about it, but I didn't prepare my thoughts so I never said this simple bit of information and, instead, I said some other things that put her off and then, after I prepared that bit of information, she no longer was willing to listen to me. So, in any case, one daydream I had -- specifically pertaining to that particular girl -- was that if she ever gives me a chance to date (which she didn't), I would date her for 57 days and then disappear. I was even thinking of elaborate scenarios to that dream. Like if she says "yes we can date" I would mark the exact day and time on HER calendar, and then put another mark on a day that is 57 days later and write that same time, and tell her she would get a big surprise at that day at that exact time, without telling her what that "big surprise" would be. Yes I would tell her the importance of number 57 and everything else, except for the content of that surprise. And then, when 57 days are over, I would prepare an envelop that says "57 days are over, now I am free" and also add some biblical quotes there, particularly John 8:36 (if the son of a man shall set you free you shall be free indeed) and 1 Cor 15: 50-56 (which a lot of Christians interpret as rapture). I would also set alarm at that exact time marked on her calendar. Up until that time I would act like normal, but the moment alarm rings I would throw that envelop at her and run before she has a chance to open it. Hopefully I could do it at some restaurant when she is together with her friends, but then again it might not happen this way since she doesn't know she has to arrange anything. Now, like I said, I never had a chance to do it, since she never came back So my "second best" dreams is to use number 57 when ghosting other girls which I never done either: I mean, the time I went no-contact with this particular girl was 28 days, not 57; and I have no idea how many days have passed before I went no-contact -- well, probably not 57 either.

But here is the ironic thing. I got 157 points for this class and I was using this class to ghost this girl. So thats how the number 57 did end up being attached to how I ghosted her -- but not in any way I could ever anticipate I mean, I was waiting until I crossed B threshold before coming back as opposed to A+, so when I came back I had 124 points, not 157. Like I said, I only collected 157 points today -- which is obviously much later. That, plus there is no way I could have deliberately lost just enough points on just enough problems to make it exactly 157. But it ended up being that way. Well, what I did have a control over is that I chose this particular course as a mechanism of ghosting her. But I could never predict that I would get any 57-s out of this course up until today. So its quite a bit of coincidence.

Well, I guess not quite: I was trying to get more than 150 points so that I could get an A+, and I was trying to get less than 160 points because, as a Christian, I don't like the number 6 (so if I were to have 160 points I would have been trying to get 170) and then at the same time who knows I might lose points for some problems so the 150-155 range isn't quite safe, I was more shooting for 155-159 range (so that if one of the problems is flat out wrong and I get 0 points for it I might still be above 150). But still, in the 155-159 range there were four other numbers I could have gotten. So its still a bit impressive I landed on 157.

Last edited by QFT on 11 Dec 2019, 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.

You shouldn't have "ghosted" her in the first place....that didn't make logical sense.

If I would have done that, I would have KNOWN that I "blew it."

If you write this person another word, it would be stalking.

Move on. Find somebody else. There are many Seventh-Day Adventists around.

Lets put side by side these two things you wrote:

and



So which way is it? Am I writing too little (the first quote) or too much (the second quote)? I guess the answer is "its all about timing". And the "timing" thing is what I find unfair. I wish I could go back and fix mistakes.

Just like with classes. I don't pay attention in class, but then I sit and study all night, and then I end up with A+. I wish I could do the same thing in relationships, to make up for past mistakes.

The woman said "it wouldn't work out," in essence.

It wouldn't have been "stalking" while you were involved in talking to each other. Now, however, if you send another letter, it could be construed as being stalking. She said she wants to "move on."

She wants no contact with you. Sorry about that. It sucks. I've had this happen to me.

But you have to move on from this.

Lesson: don't play stupid games if you are not a good game player.

I'm not calling you a "stalker," by the way. But she'll probably think you're stalking her if you write her again.

Last edited by kraftiekortie on 11 Dec 2019, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I guess I approach it differently. I want to "understand" quantum mechanics in terms of it matching my classical intuition, and this is what I am trying to work on in a lot of my research papers.

And with people its the same concept. So, from your point of view, understanding people amounts to learning empirical rules that people obey. But from my point of view understanding them amounts to matching their intuition to mine. So when those rules appear counter-intuitive, thats when I keep asking the same question over and over. And people say "we already told you multiple times what those rules are" and I say "but you never explained to me how I can match those rules to my intuition".



I am glad you can relate to it! I guess, to me, the puzzling part is how come "how they feel" are in so blatant contradiction to how I feel? I guess if their feelings could match mine then I wouldn't be asking all those questions. But the problem is that they don't.

And I am not just saying "I don't like it". I am saying "I don't operate this way". For example I wouldn't complain about the fact that people at the job market are seeking their own interests instead of helping me: I seek my own interest as well. But when people judge/label me a lot faster than I am willing to judge/label others in similar situations, thats when I have a problem.

And thats what I don't understand, the concept of people "moving on".

I mean I "understand" it in a "practical" sence: it happened to me all the time and I learned the hard way that that is how most people operate. But I don't understand the "why" of it. Why is it when people want to move on due to some specific reason and then this reason is taken out of the way, they have still moved on despite the fact that that reason is taken out of the way.

Once again, on practical sense I understand it. If I look at my life's history of when people "moved on", I would say 95% of them were sticking to that decision -- and the additional 3% fell back to their decision after I had my hopes up. But what I don't understand is why it happens this way. I mean, I thought I was giving them valid arguments on how to address their concerns? How come they are willing to listen to their arguments before they move on and aren't willing to listen to them after that.

Thats why I am wondering: does "moving on" produces chemical changes to the persons brain? I mean, *before* a person "moved on", yes, that person is willing to put lots of effort. Case in point: my second ex was quite frustrated with me, but she didn't "move on" for two years, so she kept nagging me to do what she wants. Yet, *after* the person has moved on -- however long or however quick it takes -- thats it, there is no going back. And thats what I don't get. If a person was willing to put all that effort "before" they moved on, why can't they do something as simple as to reverse their "moving on" decision? Does something chemically happen to their brain when they "move on"?

So, like I said, I undersetand the statistical evidence, its quite clear. But I don't understand the reason for it. And this combination is what drives me crazy. I feel like a victim of a phenomenon that doesn't even make logical sense -- yet I am very much a victim of it, which is what I resent.

Now....that's a subject for future cognitive neuroscience research......

She moved on because she didn't like the fact that you ghosted her. She might have saw that as being an insult.