Could you be loved?

Post Reply New Topic

Something to take into account: Women don't factor in age as strongly as men do, when assessing a potential mate. Their other qualities tend to get more consideration - Stability, independence, character, etc. Therefore, the guy who is a little bit older, and has his life a bit more fleshed out, tends to be seen as more attractive than the younger guy. So from a dating perspective, you are not in your prime, and your physical prime simply doesn't matter quite so much.

....But correct me if I'm wrong, ladies.

@Sound is right, Toad. You're not in your prime at 21 - you're barely an adult. Everyone gets better with age, experience, and maturity. You could give yourself 20 years and still have time to have a family. Don't make artificial barriers for yourself - what you have to offer a woman will definitely increase as you age. And the important issue here is that you're working on your issues - and that means there's always hope for improvement in your situation and your life. (And remember, I'm expecting another positive thing list entry tomorrow, okay?)


@Kaysea, I agree completely - we're usually our own worst enemies (NT/Aspie alike). But IMO, what matters most is whether you're working on it.

Hmmm, but if it was cause and effect, why did it take 20 years to work? Not a very efficient system, if you ask me!



Actually, that wasn´t quite what I was saying. I was stating that Aspies need experience, but it´s very difficult to get that experience. When you´re a single person in your 40s, and you have as little experience as the average 20 year old, the world of dating/relationships is daunting and intimidating. It´s terrifying to even "put yourself out there". And, the point I was trying to make is that the conventional literature is not geared for Aspies, so much of what we need to know beforehand is just not available. I have always thought that one of the best social programs they could design for adults with Asperger´s Syndrome would be some kind of dating-help program. Maybe start with a lecturer, and then afterward, give the Aspies some hands-on practice socializing in an asking-out or dating context, with feedback. It would be educating, as well as a low pressure way for adult Aspies to meet each other. In my area, they do something like that (but geared for NTs), where they analyze body language in a dating context. They work in groups of 2, and there´s a body language coach who gives constructive feedback. I always wanted to do it, but unfortunately it costs a huge amount of money, so I just couldn´t afford it.

About the experience thing, let me try to put it another way. It may be hard for me to communicate, and it may be hard for NTs to understand. But to many of us, it looks like NTs just "know stuff". I´m not sure how you learn it, or if you just pick it up, or if a lot of it is so self-explanatory you don´t even need to go over it. Here´s an analogy: when I first had to do job interviews, I read books on the subject. I knew I had to make eye contact, act confident, and "sell myself". But the first job interviews I did were horrible; I mucked up totally. Either those situations I encountered were not even covered in the books, so I had no base point, or some of my mistakes were probably so abnormal that no one else needs coaching in that area. I think many of us have to pretty much throw ourselves into things blindly, at least at first. You learn by making mistakes. I´ve gotten much better at them now, though it´s pretty much "hit or miss". And when I miss, boy do I miss.

As I mentioned, I read many books about dating before I started to date. But I never, ever ever ever felt comfortable dating! I eventually stopped doing it, and wracked my brains trying to think up other creative ways to meet men. What those books taught me mainly, is that I´m strange. That I´m not like other people, that my emotions and problems are not typical. And mostly, that I´m not much like a "normal" woman. (Most of those books are rather gender-stereotyped, if you ask me, and they talk about typical, gender-stereotyped problems). I am NOT from Venus! I obviously come from some other planet, like Neptune. And they don´t write books for people from Neptune.



Okay, we can leave it at that....except, actually, I think we only half-disagree. Though I have no experience with it myself, you are probably right in that people who´ve experienced deep trauma and abuse can be helped by books or therapy. It makes sense. Just, they don´t help much, in my opinion, for general Aspieness.

Past the "prime of your life"? Are you joking? It says next to your picture that you´re only 22. You´re just a baby!

Also, people usually get even more appealing with age.

@Morgana, I really have enjoyed this discussion with you.

I think we can agree (wholeheartedly) that dating is an incredibly inefficient system. (First time I've heard it described that way, but when you're right, you're right.)

Honestly, if it's really about cause and effect, I don't know why it took 20 years for you to find the right partner. I kinda wondered if it might be about something like proximity or exposure to men...I mean Aspies don't typically like going to clubs or mixers or being in a lot of the social situations that people use to meet potential partners. If you'd kinda sworn off dating, that would limit your exposure to men in general, so maybe it's just the law of averages? Less exposure to "a few good men" equals fewer opportunities to meet Mr. Right?

Like I said, I can't know the answer with any certainty. I know I'm a tad predisposed to see the glass half-full anyway (my name is Hope, after all). I'm willing to accept agreeing to half-agree. You ma'am are a formidable opponent! (That's not going to be funny unless you watch the Colbert Report.) Thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughtful responses.

Thanks!

And I just love the Colbert report! I watch it whenever I´m back in America.

@Morgana, full episodes of the Colbert Report are available on his website now - you don't have to wait to return state-side. Have you seen the "Formidable Opponent" segment - where he debates himself? Stephen is sooooo funny. As of course, is Jon Stewart.

But I'm also waaaaaaay behind everyone else my age. I see people my age hooking up all around me like crazy. Some are serial daters, others get into committed relationships on the way to marriage (or are married). I, on the other hand, have had one short-lived relationship that didn't get anywhere (you almost coundn't even consider it to be a relationship)... Either way, I'm the one who gets to be perpetually single watching everyone else have all the fun (whatever "fun" may happen to be in each case). I feel like Rudy, having to constantly sit on the sidelines, never getting called up to play. And unless all my fellow players start cheering for my time in the field, it's probably going to stay that way...

In an unrelated note, I too am a big Colbert fan (I actually consider the Daily Show and the Colbert Report to be one show, and I can't watch one without the other)

Oh crumbs. I know this feeling. I was exactly the same at 21! Actually, I used to feel quite embarrassed to admit that I was 21 when I finally lost my virginity. I didn't get my first kiss until 20. I was a slow learner in that regard.

First - people go at different speeds. I have a friend who was practically a virgin until very recently - in the last year - and he's in his mid thirties. Some people start dating (and beyond) from early teens. So what? Perhaps you're just not ready yet. I wasn't ready. If I'd actually started dating a few years earlier it would have been with the wrong gender, and that would have been VERY messy to sort out!

Second - just because people around you are paired up, it doesn't mean they're happy. There's a general sense in society as a whole that we're supposed to be in couples, and we're made to feel weird if we remain single. A lot of couples form because people are terrified of being alone - and they aren't necessarily right for each other. Often these people suddenly discover that they're living with someone who has ideas and opinions of their own, and they sometimes want things their way! The horror! This isn't what Cinderella and Prince Charming got! Often people don't realise until they're married and have two kids and a mortgage, at which point they are resolutely trapped. I can guarantee that some of those couples you see around at the moment will be in exactly this position in ten years or so. They'll smile and tell you everything's great, but just beneath their skin... they're screaming.
(I make no apologies for paraphrasing Faithless...)

Third - dating is a very weird and complicated game in which no-one entirely knows the rules. It's also not a spectator sport. You won't attract any women by sitting in the corner and waiting. You need to approach them. This is scary, and you'll be turned down a LOT. This is not because you're ugly, or stupid, or have Asperger's, or anything like this at all. It's the same for every man. Some women will turn you down because they're legitimately unavailable (not all married women wear a ring, for instance). Some will turn you down because they're not after a relationship at the moment. Some will just not fancy you (their loss!). But some will take the chance. It may not last, it may take a while to find one, but persistence is the key.

My advice is this - stop trying to find a relationship. I can guarantee they get stifling after a few years anyway, and you'll yearn to be single again. You're young, you're single and you've got a lot to learn - so look on this as practice. Talk to women. Try whatever approaches you want, and remember that 99% of them will probably fail - you're a novice at this! Learn from them. It's not normal to ask women that turn you down for feedback, but screw normal - ask them for dating tips! Are you coming on too strong? Do you seem desperate? Is your aftershave wrong? Keep practising and eventually you'll get better. Don't go looking for a relationship; look for fun and friendship. If you click with someone, a relationship is a natural result.

I have it on Facebook under my "real" name, but I'm happy to message you with it!

Would you? That would be great! Excellent advice again, btw.

@Toad - TONIGHT! Just giving you a little Stephen there. I totally watch them both together every night - absolutely the only TV I watch regularly. They make me laugh every day - how many people can you say that about?

Oh, and not to be a nag, but I'm waiting for today's item.

@thom: Making friends with women is easy... I usually end up on friendly terms with almost all of the women I meet. That's not the problem. On the other hand, following your post, I guess I'm just not "clicking" with anybody... which again raises the concern as to whether it is possible for a woman to love me at all...

@hope: umm... I just made a new photoshop artwork thingy today?

@Toad, your running list of positive attributes/behaviors now includes:

I can fix computers,
I can sing
I can do artwork in photoshop (and I mean actual art, not just editing someone's face onto someone else's body)
I'm helping out in my church's youth program today
I just made a new photoshop artwork today
Thoughtful dream interpretation


(I like keeping it cumulatively - it's a good reminder.) Snagged the last one from another post.

Last edited by HopeGrows on 17 Mar 2010, 5:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I feel like you're trying to hook me on a drug or something...

Yes, Toad - and your first hit is free!

Forming good habits is hard work, Toad. I want you to see that list every day, and watch it grow - eventually you'll get used to it.

I agree! And the same applies to convential therapies, too. There is actually precious little help for the long term involuntary celibate/love shy. Brian Gilmartins research into the 'love shy' has never really been taken up as serious psychology. It is not in DSM, yet many other oddities are e.g ."shopping compulsion" is apparently being added. The harsh fact is that to be a 40 year old virgin, or to go 10 years without any form of relationship is not actually considered a problem in our society! You can't go to the doctor and say "I haven't been loved for 15 years" and expect anything but anti-depressants. Contrast with being an abuse victim, where at least there are help lines...and all sorts of programs for victims and even the abusers. Nobody makes cheap jokes about the predicament of abuse victims, unlike the long-term single, who are often ridiculed.

Seems to me there are two relationship problems that keep getting mentioned here, in context of Aspergers. One is those who repeatedly get into abusive, or at least very unsatisfactory relationships. The other is those who can't get into *any* relationship. There has been some arguing as to which is *worst*, but I think that's not relevant. Things can be 'different' without being 'better' or 'worse' . I think it important to not muddle them up, to keep the two concepts as equal but separate problems for Aspies.

Aspergers *is* implicated in love shyness, Gilmartin was researching before AS was well known, but has since said that maybe 40% of the love shy would have an AS diagnosis now. Unfortunately it seems no psychologists are really interested in the love shy, which just about sums up the general publics attitude of 'sink or swim'. Despite the fact that all psychologists note the importance of 'loving relationships' and a good sex life for our overall well being, there seems little real will to help those who are not getting those vital aspects. Telling them to "improve yourself and get out there' is as unhelpful as telling a violent abuse victim to "go learn martial arts". It just *may* work once in a while, but it's more likely to make the situation worse.

The 'dating guides' don't really fill the role as they are, in the main, pop-psychology with making money as their primary aim. "Double you Dating " isn't much use when your dating is zero, as twice zero is still zero! "The Game" is way out of the range of those beyond the 'milder' end of the spectrum. Like entering someone with a broken leg into an Olympic sprint.

So in my long winded way, I'm agreeing that *something* is needed for Aspies that doesn't actually exist at present. Something outside of the mainstream NT dating system. Given the general public attitude towards disability, relationships and sexuality ....I'm not expecting anything soon. And it would be way, way too late for those of us approaching middle age anyway!