Blog post on the epidemic of forced celibacy in males

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I don't separate love and sex either and that's why I prefer not to bother with dating. I've met women online that have been interested in me, but I've given them up because I knew that they wanted a relationship and that I wanted them in bed. Sometimes I went to far and got them to tell me intimate stuff before breaking up with them and that may have broken their hearts.

Something I'm going to add to this thread of my two cents to even out reality from my perspective, its incredibly difficult out there. You can have NT-level social skills, you can dress great, you can have great success at work or success in sport or art endeavors, it still comes down to this - you either have a certain look or vibe about you, or, you don't. It seems like right now our culture is genetic value uber alis, it's certain types of very sheer looking girls picking up the guys and mostly guys with the in-and-out-of-jail look picking up the girls; at least in areas like my own.

I think to get away from that - ie. if you're in the kind of place where you're successful, have a lot going for you, have all of your ducks in a row, and the girls/guys who won't give you the time of day are more than happy to date and marry gas station attendants - you might need to think where you're living. My area is like this and, I have had friends who moved to a *major* college area maybe about two hours down the highway from here and, I used to think they were full of hot air when they said it seemed like a completely different world - I might have been wrong in that assertion though. I was just out at a club with a friend and I saw that people were much more open and approachable, the girls were friendly and liked a good conversation rather than sitting back with their arms folded to say "What game do you have to spit? It better be good, otherwise you're not worth my time". Don't get me wrong, I'm not a hater, just that I've been sick and tired of feeling like I needed to beat on myself over other people's pettiness just to get by and it thankfully sounds like that sort of pettiness might not be quite as universal as I'd originally thought.

But this is the root of the problem right here... women find me creepy too... I'm not one that even wants sex, I just want to find someone that loves me. And yet for that I am apparently a creep. I'm also worried about my future, especially worried that somehow i would turn out like Sodini, a completely insane freak who can't control himself...

*sigh* looking at the article and reading the reactions it seems I have to put my 2 cents into the conversation. regarding the individual in question, I think he just looked for a mate in the wrong place really. Now as for the eroding of values and such... I can sorta see the point the author was trying to make (after vaguely skimming it) and I can also see the counter point in a way. I think the point was that due to the changing of work climates and such just getting a decent paying job and being relatively healthy isn't going to land you a girl. I think the author of the article bemoans this fact and several of the commenters here say "you gotta do more then just bring home a decent amount of money and put a roof over my head in order to get into my pants buddy".

While I think that it may be true that one needs to show that they value others more then just sex objects, I do understand the frustration and despair of not ever being in a real romantic relationship. I do think that in order for a human male to live an emotionally healthy life he needs to find someone who is willing to value him as a sufficient sexual partner. Unlike females, males emotional and romantic attachments generally are linked to their sex drives. This is due in no small part because guys can impregnate several women in a 9 month period and don't have to worry about child birth. Thus in order to spread their genes more effectively they need to have sex as much as they can. (yes lets get the screams of biological determinism out of the way now even though its bull).

Now if one doesn't get that validation early enough or if one gets over saturated with such validation some pretty messed up things can happen. Those who are under valued become depressed and enraged. They either lash out like the guy in the article or they die emotionally, becoming cold calculating predators existing solely for the thrill of the hunt and nothing else (PUAs). Over validation can make individuals drunk with success jumping from one girl to the next without really settling down until its too late and they have to deal with child support among other things.

In closing I think whats important for the ladies to realize is that although you guys have a time of it finding someone to value you as a person, also realize that for lads not having sex in a relationship is like saying you don't value them as a person either. Its hardwired into most of us and is there for a reason: to keep the human race alive. Now my advice for the lads is this: ladies don't care about sex as much as they do emotional support. Problem is that you need to study how to navigate social boundaries, know when the ladies are inviting you in for an interview to be her mate, and if you pass the interview don't be a dick and don't make her regret her decision.

I'd say stop listening to what the girls have to say about what makes a man attractive to them. They either don't know, or wouldn't tell you if they did. Neither do a lot of the men, because they don't have to think about it. If you're posting on this board, then you probably have some unusual problems and will have to figure many things out for yourself. It's unbelievably hard.

Completely agreed.

pardon? i know exactly what i find attractive in a man, and i've expressed in repeatedly, in many threads. it's not a big mystery....

I agree mostly with what I highlighted.

As far as what I didn't highlight - I agree but for different reasons than he layed out. I don't believe there is any deliberate or natural deceptiveness involved so much as that most people don't have themselves figured out as deeply as they think they do, they're vernacular is much more filled with shoulds than reality, its part of why I think people get blind-sided so much these days as well.

If you've been married for over ten years though and are looking at another twenty or thirty solid then I believe you, you probably do have yourself figured out. For the general populace though, IMO, its rare, and to be truthful I'm still speaking for myself to an extent, I've found out that what I thought was great on paper was still missing a lot of elements and I'm still trying to sort out what it is and why. Really I'm about to get experimental and just start hitting random girls up on Eharmony who are extrovert NT's who say next to nothing on their profile just to get some realistic sense in the difference of what's out there and what they may have that I need to look for in someone who's closer to my own realm if that makes sense. Like Nostromos said - its extremely difficult, typically I believe our hardest spot of luck isn't luck with the opposite sex but rather luck with ourselves in relation to the opposite sex but that's going on toward a whole new topic.

makes sense. and now, timefor the unwanted advice....i think that the lists people create on WP boards (the ones that detail all the exact characteristics that are desirable in the opposite sex), are self-limiting and ultimately unsatisfactory at allowing the gems to get through the filter.

i.e. wanting only a person of a certain weight, or wanting only a non-smoker, or certain hairstyles or something, etc. eliminates a lot of propective mates for things that are highly labile. many characteristics will change with time, and i believe people should be aware that it is not effective to seek a mate as though he or she were a static 'thing'... people change. my husband and i (yep, together 20 years, married for 16) are not anything like what we were 20 years ago.

clicking with someone on a deeper level (and staying together as a successful couple) seems to require openmindedness and a willingness to see beyond the outward self. filtering out potential mates with superficial criteria limits one's choices, it seems like.

There's nothing here I'd disagree on. The challenge though is we all have different wiring, different thresholds for what can stick. That seems to be the trouble. Identity is a tough cookie to break, yes it can be flexed or widened but still - even then - I think a lot of people just go from the right person being 2 out of 100 to 4 out of 100, so many different attitudes, values, beliefs, past experiences, etc. out there.

Like I said, from the most attractive to the least attractive guys/girls out there - I don't envy anyone who's fighting with this one. It sucks.

Sorry, I don't put much stock in articles that refer to women as "chicks" and sex as "getting p****".

I can't be bothered to pity men who want sex and can't get it any more than men who want to play in the NBA and aren't tall enough. Both are wants, not needs.

Read the wikipedia entry on "involuntary celibacy" and see if you still think that way. The urge to reproduce is certainly more than a want, if not a need. It has long-lasting and potentially fatal effects on the lives of those who suffer from it.

Find "sex" in the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

(I guess images are disabled here. I'm hardly surprised.)

Last edited by fs on 14 Sep 2010, 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

suffer from it? then why isn't voluntary celibacy suffering? clearly, many people choose to be celibate, and the majority are fine with the choice. lack of sex does not necessarily mean suffering must follow.

interesting description on wikipedia based on maslow's hierarchy (bolding is mine):



in this description, sex is not required in order to function as a human being. i think people need sex with another person instead of masturbation as much as they need ice cream instead of potatoes. it's psychologically better, and more emotionally fulfilling in the long run, but not necessary for one's own physical survival.

Uh-huh. Find me one death certificate where COD was "couldn't get any".