Lying to Attract a Mate

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@Toad, being used is not better than being alone. Heartbreak is only more profound when you realize you've been played by the person who did the breaking.

To be clear, I'm referring to "casting a wide net" as a bad strategy when a lie is used as bait. Maybe the "average" woman wouldn't give you a chance - maybe. But a woman who is not shallow, who values character, honesty, integrity, and who is willing to compromise and adapt and interpret (on occasion) - that's the kind of woman who will be the best match for you. You won't attract that kind of woman with lies.

i have seen people admit that very thing on their profiles - or go to dating sites specifically for recovering alcoholics.

i can tell that there is something "different" in your profile, but i would not have guessed AS. i don't know what enough aspies look like "on paper" to have figured that out.

to a bunch of you (not just Jono) - what i think is important to remember is that you (plural) are approaching this from the perspective of how the world should operate if it was a fair place. it isn't a fair place, especially when it comes to dating. we are approaching this from the perspective of knowing what worked and didn't work for men in dating situations with us. people with our experiences would not necessarily universally agree, but i'm putting that out there. there is thread after thread after thread in this section from men looking for advice on dating, and we are expressing that if you lie or hide your true self at the outset, it creates a bad situation.

The argument I was getting - or at least from the verbiage I was receiving back - was that it would be inappropriate in all cases for aspies not to post that they have AS. Trying to imagine saying that to everyone with any kind of ailment, the logic wouldn't work well unless we were going eugenic. I don't at all believe that this is what you nor hyperlexian meant, just making a point that the 'all regardless' message that I saw in your wording was a bit odd - wasn't sure if you knew what message that was conveying or whether you even meant to convey that message.


This segways directly into the severity conversation in my post in quoting hyperlexian:

That's exactly the scenario I'm talking about, and I believe that there are a lot of us out there - even on this site, my experience with AS groups also seemed to bring me across more people who are situated as such. In that case, so long as you know that you either need to find someone who's more of an introvert or at least a punctuated introvert (if you yourself are quite sociable at times but need definite recharge points), people who would fit your psychological/chemical build are out there and available, and as long as you already believe in holding yourself to the same level of responsibility for your own social strengths and weakness as the rest of society, no accommodations needed, and that's only a problem if you aren't being honest with yourself on what degree you can function.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYjnWXFTQkM[/youtube]

In advocacy General Patton is one of my idols.

Alright so I will go with the Nazi policy comparison another had briefly mentioned but it is different as an example. Nazi's found the Jewish to be different and they cost the Nazi's as competitors profits in society. Likewise autism is perceived to cost society a great deal of money early on in the life of an individual with autism and so on. While it is different then Nazi Germany in some contexts and unique manifestations within situations it can be deemed similar but never the same. Anyone who demands your identity, your unique personality and in your reproductive rituals that you verbally in comparison put on the star of David in the form of disclosure of a diagnoses is violating morally and ethics on a very sacred level. It is not however against the truth and honesty policy of let's say the German hierarchy in WWII to not say your name, rank, serial number and place an arm wrap whether white or red.

errrr are you feeling a bit paranoid? nobody is forcing anyone to do anything at all. we are arguing this perspective because honesty has mattered to us a great deal in our dating and long-term relationships. dishonesty and hiding stuff was a deal-breaker.

i even once dated a few men with mental illnesses like bipolar disorder (and some mild issues like ADHD) - knowing full well that they had been diagnosed. i decided that they were not right for me but i appreciated knowing about the mental illnesses ahead of time. if i had found out later on, i would have felt betrayed and angry.

if a person's autism is so mild that it would never ever be noticed by anyone, then does it qualify as a disability at all for that person? if it causes no impairment in social situations, a workplace, romantic relationships etc, then i think that person would not meet the diagnostic criteria and they are perhaps excluded from this discussion.

i believe this argument has deteriorated to Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

seriously folks, if your best argument is that we are deteriorating to the ways of Nazi Germany, then perhaps this argument has run its course.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMW_ROS94Kk[/youtube]

Calling me paranoid especially when I detached the whole comparison of Nazi Germany another had made not me is displaced. I have in-depth study in the nature of delusion and subsequent complexes that go from the supernatural, ufology, cultism and onto politics. The moral of the story is to insight disclosure of diagnoses in any like way is simply unethical when it is simply not the flu and is manifest in the entire self and being. It is simply an unnecessary obsession and or interest which demands these ideas to further the awareness which is of soemthing non-contagious.

Delusion is common and to speak with concern to it toward those of these ideas is educational and simply that. You must understand the science of articulation, argumentation and constructive metaphor in like patterns to understand and might find advanced psycho-dynamic theory and strategy enlightening.

My apologies, Hope - the discussion started to degenerate somewhat.

i bolded the parts that seemed paranoid to me. your posts take the argument to an extreme that does not exist in reality at all.

nobody is demanding anything at all from other poeple in terms of disclosure - it is a suggestion in an internet argument only. yet, 3 times you have phrased your responses as though people told you that you absolutely must do something. but there is no law, requirement or other regulation that can make you disclose anything at all, so your assertion that we are making people do something... sounds quite paranoid.

It was metaphoric to fit a theme of idea previously presented. The notion that one must feel obligated to disclose a diagnoses of autism is akin to being mandated to if one was to be honest. Honesty as what another poster mentioned would entail full disclose of a diagnoses. This is part of the complex healthy or not of the supposed cultural identifier and association of a label that a person with autism least in my contextual experience is not even aware of or that interested in the label. the sole reason for a label where I live is to receive services and no ethical obligation is made for truth and honesty reasons to live a life aware of and engrosses in the label. The natural self as one was born as and is not a disease one catches and is the innocent self naturally and let's just call it organic reality of being and behaving as one evolves and beginning with how one naturally is neurologically.

So this whole philosophy of disclosure requires one subscribe to the label culture which is a psychological intrusion if morally and or ethically perceived obligatory.

Now do you want me to write up the 14- 18 pages necessary to analyse this whole social framework or should I just let it be and not intrude upon others variant relevant interests in day to day life with the label?

Well...

you do label yourself... you labelled yourself here on Wrong Planet. what you seem to be expressing is the desire to pick and choose when to label yourself based on your own best interests. but in dating situations you are also thinking of the other person's best interests, not just your own.

We can ask Alex to see what he says. Although as far as I know, Google ranks websites automatically according to an algorithm that looks other most commonly searched words alongside the ones you type into the search bar. So for example, if the words CADD and Cassandra are the most commonly searched words alongside Asperger's searched together with love and relationships then if one searches for sites containing the words "Asperger's" and "love" or "Asperger's" and "relationships", the first results to show up will contain not only those words but the also the words "Cassandra" and "CADD" because those sites will be ranked as the most relevant. That's why webmasters in the past were able to increase their Google hits just by writing the word "sex" somewhere on their web site, though that doesn't work any more because I think the Google ranking algorithm has improved since then.

I am not someone that is self-diagnosed. I was brought up hearing about autism with regard to me. I strongly believe an obsession with a label alters ones natural psychological well being. Let's think outside the box for a moment, the reproductive rituals and the label is just one component. This is about ethics all the way around if anyone wants to impose some alienable morality in the form of culture on me and others and wants others to take it seriously be prepared to get down and naked (utterly anal-lit-i-cal) intellectually with the fundamental frameworks in analysis.

i didn't call you self-diagnosed. i said that you labelled yourself on WP. you chose to disclose your own autism here, which is a label. you also stated that you use the label to get the services you need. so you are not averse to being called "autistic" as a label, as long as you think it best serves your own purposes. however, in those situations when it could best serve other people's purposes, you argue against the labelling.

if you want to talk about ethics, i am of the perspective that it is definitely not ethical to hide one's diagnosis from potential dating partners. ethics are not universal one way or the other - either side can be argued as either ethical or unethical depending on the perspective.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHvgAJe8bvM&feature=artistob&playnext=1&list=TLI925HL2VduE[/youtube]

My professional job is advocacy and I do not think of myself as autistic but simply human being. That is a far cry from labeling myself which I did not and actively speak against identity related diagnoses. I believe it is a distraction. How you view autism is part of the study of sociology relevantly and my paper would reflect this. Ethically it is socially pressured typically to disclose STD's and it I do not believe would reach toward an atypical status less it is by means of stereotypic and prejudice that mating would entail the disclose of the obvious in the form of an artificial concept imposed upon how I was born.

By the end of the paper I feel confident that any intellectual and any laymen should there be two different versions would deflect the disclosure of the obvious behavioral and mental differences which are manifest in day to day life. All in all a focus upon differences instead of merging into the grand melting pot of what is in a diverse society like America is potentially estranging and unhealthy, least unnatural manifest of 3rd party criterion. It is important that despite societies reasons to diagnose every individual is allowed to experience normal as everyone else otherwise it is an unnecessary prejudice and does not need to be treated in any way similar to a reproductive disease like HIV.

I am very confident about this politically.

Can you please explain to me how revealing my diagnosis of AS is in any way more honest than explaining how the AS affects me personally? Especially since the words Asperger Syndrome could be associated with everything from lack of empathy to having frequent "irrational" meltdowns which isn't even an accurate picture of most aspies? I don't want the person to guess I've got AS, I want to explain the effect AS has on me specifically before revealing I have AS. If I explain the symptoms without using the name, how is that the same as hiding it? You say the world isn't fair. However it's made even less fair by inaccurate pre-conceptions and people who spread misinformation just to discriminate against us. Once again, have you followed the link to the Delphi thread I posted earlier?

Last edited by Jono on 10 Dec 2010, 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.