NT female seeks input on AS male's fears

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I can somewhat understand your difficulty. But, remember, they trained you to do this. Obviously, in wartime, there is a lot you don't know, and you have to try to move forward anyway. But it takes training to do that. And perhaps the minefield analogy wasn't a good one, because you understand what a minefield is. If you have enough information to at least make a judgment that might be a good one, that's one thing. If you were a medieval peasant, suddenly thrust into the midst of the Battle of the Bulge, you wouldn't have the slightest foundation for making judgments.

You probably should explain that you're asking him to let you be the guide. That might help. But one thing you probably know, but I'll reiterate anyway, is don't push. Let him think the idea over, get used to it. Talk about it, but don't insist on it.

My parents were obsessed with getting me to eat the "right" foods when I was a kid. Since I grew up, I've tried to learn to eat a wider range of things, and made an interesting discovery. There are those foods I never would have been able to eat. Period. I have such awful sensory issues, hell would freeze over before I could eat them. Out of the foods I was forced to eat as a kid, the ones that weren't so awful they could not force me, I'm pretty sure I could have learned to eat those, if I hadn't been forced. As it is, I've learned to eat a few, but with huge caveats; I must be in a good state, those foods must be insanely fresh, I only eat most veggies raw, etc. Because the more I try to make myself eat them, the more resistance I build up, after that initial experience. Now, I've tried other foods that I'd never had before, including ones I really wasn't sure I'd like, but I waited until I was ready. Most of those foods, I like and can eat happily enough. So I'd have a better diet, with much less difficulty, if I had never been forced to begin with.

It isn't just food, either. Being forced to sit in school for years, bored to death, has left its marks on me. So when you're dealing with anyone with AS, don't push. Urge, cajole, talk, but wait until they're ready. Sorry, but even now that I understand my own reactions, this is one of those things I don't know how to get around.

Very true - that's kind of what I have in mind. I feel very protective of him. But if he won't talk to me or let me anywhere near him, there's nothing I can do. That's the source of much of my frustration.


Oh, of course. I'm making use of the time to learn, process, digest, etc., and filing it all away for later. He confused me for a while there with the rendezvous thing, but it quickly became evident that he wasn't ready for what he'd proposed.

I don't know if this was wise or not, but I told him that he's becoming easier to predict, at least broadly speaking. He refused to give me any hint of his future intentions - any hope - but I told him my prediction was that he would call me eventually. 6-12 months. When we parted, I asked if he'd call me sometime (again I sought just a tiny scrap of hope). He smiled and said "well, according to you, I will." I laughed and let him go. (And then drank myself into a stupor, because I miss him so much. Sigh.)

I do understand your frustration. I wish I had some better advice to give you, but the "easy" solutions are usually the ones that blow up in your face the fastest...

I've been keeping an eye on this thread for a while, since most of the things that have been said I find quite intriguing, with some parts even resonating with me (too many to quote)! Before I give an answer, I gotta say I'm impressed, waitykatie. You stuck in there with your guy and from the posts in this thread, are very open to learning more about the ins and outs of your boyfriend!! Honestly, I wish all NT partners in an AS/NT relationship had the same drive to learn as you do. Imagine how many relationships would be saved because of it!

Now, I'm gonna answer your question with my own experience with this. It might be the case for your Aspie or it might not. Take it in the sense that you feel is best! Personally, I grew up a lot in school having been bullied like crazy and forming very few friendships. The ones that were forged were rarely steady. It wasn't until years later I came to realize part of the lack of friendships was because some of the things I was saying were social faux pas, and I wasn't aware of it. So the fact that someone still chats with me despite my social fumbles shows that there are people who do care for me. The least I can do in return is reciprocate that caring feeling and not make too many social errors, since, based on past experience, social error = no friendship (I'm a little more conscious of it now thanks to years of identity searching, but it's still hard to do).

What I described was only for friendship. Take that into a dating context, where the expectation is usually to play more of an active role in another one's life, and it's more crucial, since the feelings are more intensified. Sometimes it feels as if social error = no chance at relationship. I have had instances were this hasn't been the case, but even then, the equation changes to social error = failure as a partner = lost relationship.

So I guess the one thing to take from this post would be since there comes a point when I become more aware of social mishaps, I want to make sure every base is covered and don't mess anything up with my partner.

(This post was gonna be much longer than it is, but I'm really tired at the moment. I'll probably go back and edit it later)

I'm so glad you're following along. This thread has taken on a life of its own - I feel like I'm collecting lots of wisdom!

Thank you kindly for your compliments (although I'm extremely embarrassed. ) But I have a confession to make. I do have a natural drive to learn (or perhaps it's an unnatural drive). And there all kinds of other reasons I stick with it. But at root, what's really driving me is the absolutely phenomenal, intense, passionate, transcendent lovemaking. I swore I would do whatever it takes to experience that with him just one more time before I die!

Then I learned how literal Aspies are. I did say "whatever it takes," so . . . .

Your background sounds similar to his. You say, you want to make sure every base is covered and don't mess anything up with your partner, and I would imagine it's the same for him. When he backed out of our rendezvous, he said that now he's older, more mature, more responsibilities, and didn't want to just take things lightly or throw caution to the wind. That all makes sense to me. On one hand, I think he's proceeding with an overabundance of caution. On the other hand, I'm glad he cares that much.

I've considered that. All he said about interacting with her is that "it can be managed." Not much information in that statement.

He's told me enough about her that I can piece together why she is the way she is. She was adopted, so she has abandonment issues. Her family is wealthy, so they provided money and luxuries instead of nurturing her. She's very tall, so she likely had trouble attracting men. She has a college degree in fine arts - pottery or something - so she's not a brainiac. All that adds up to low self-esteem, which is how she got addicted to dangerous drugs (and even tried them to begin with). That, in turn, suggests a self-destructive streak, and no particular goals in life, other than to find a man with a fat paycheck to sustain her lifestyle. (Years earlier, he'd suggested to me that he kind of knew that's what he'd get stuck with. How, was beyond me.)

I'm not sure how she and my Aspie crossed paths, but they met shortly after I left the country for 3 years (wrongly thinking he had rejected me). He'd just had another short-lived relationship blow up in his face. He was lonely, while she had just gotten out of drug rehab. They were both in their early 30s - time to settle down. He likes women with strong personalities, and he may also have liked that she was an outcast and felt victimized, and so (he assumed) could relate to him. They got married within 9 months of meeting, and she was a "girly girl" who spent most of that time planning the wedding.

To me, that is a recipe for disaster. For one thing, they hardly knew each other. The speed of it suggests desperation on both sides. She would have been desperate for all kinds of reasons, and took advantage of the first easy mark to come along. She likely viewed him as a mysterious prince who'd come to whisk her off to a fairy-tale life. Knowing my Aspie, it no doubt soon became evident that she's signed on for something else entirely. She probably felt he'd played bait-and-switch, so everything that followed would have been making him pay compensation for all his deficiencies, for not living up to her wildly unrealistic expectations. This is mostly conjecture, but suffice it to say that it would be hard to imagine two people less equipped to deal with each other. The fact that it lasted for almost a decade is really quite remarkable.

I hesitate to say unkind things about her, although he knows I can barely pay my bills and don't want to hear any more "poor little rich girl" bullsh*t. But I admit, it makes me feel really good to know that you think she's a Grade A b!tch. Thanks!

I once asked him to explain why it was so easy for him to commit to her, while it's always been so difficult for him to commit to me. He ignored the question. I think I've more or less worked out the answer for myself, and/or it's not the right question.

My own guess would be this: if you're going to settle, it doesn't take much to commit. When it really matters, then you've got to get it right.

ToughDiamond, your list in response to feryk is very helpful!

I was not familiar with the term "alexithymia," so I did a little research. Basically emotional blindness to others' emotions, as well as one's own, right? I would say my Aspie is a textbook example! He's never really sure what he's feeling, so he changes his mind all the time. When I said that to him, he exclaimed that no one has ever said that to him before. I think of him as a force of nature, predictable only to a limited extent. Low dark clouds mean rain, but whether it will be a drizzle or a downpour, or whether there will be lightning or hail or tornadoes - who knows?

I've experienced several things you've pointed out, with my Aspie:

Check!


Never an issue. He flatly won't do it. Thus, some around me suspect that this man is a figment of my imagination, and I'm making it all up.


This may help explain something that remains unclear to me. He felt that sex would necessarily lead to a relationship, so we briefly discussed what the structure of the relationship might be like. It seemed "obvious" to my NT mind that, since he has the kids on alternating weekends, we could spend time together on the "off-weekends" (subject, of course, to other priorities that may arise). I thought that would be a reasonable place to start, until he's ready to introduce us, and for all that will entail.

But he rejected that, as he rejects all of my "reasonable" ideas. Throughout the years, the unifying theme of the "reasonableness" he rejects, is that I would not be around 24/7. Time and again, he's been clear that constant, solid, wall-to-wall, around-the-clock availability, is the only way he can accept or handle a romantic/sexual relationship with me. I intend to offer space and flexibility (since that is "reasonable" to NTs), but I believe my "reasonable" offers of space and flexibility actually make him feel rejected. Does this make sense to you? Has he not "learned to split the atom" yet?


Check! But I'm sure my Aspie would say the same thing.

Wow. You speak wisdom, my friend. That makes perfect sense. I feel very dumb that these things don't occur to me.

This discussion has been so incredibly helpful. I feel my understanding has grown by leaps and bounds over the last couple of weeks, beyond an intellectual level.

There's one remaining issue - something I'm really at a loss to explain. In a way, it's related to my original question.

The military really did not train me to do this. They identified a skill I already had, and put it to practical use. It's instinctive to natural leaders - just as you've explained that certain things are instinctive for Aspies. Whether by birth, life experience, or whatever, it's a core feature of my personality. I wouldn't know how to do things any differently.

When I have attempted to convey this to my Aspie, he doesn't seem to like it, when it should have the opposite effect. He seems to think I have no weaknesses, experienced no hardship, have never been isolated or cast out, and reacts with jealousy. Yet I've been through all those things, having had to navigate and solve all kinds of bizarre situations. His suspicion and/or resentment feels like a rejection of my entire personality, my entire being, my entire experience.

It was suggested to ask him what he thinks I am. I did, once. His answer made me simultaneously burst into laughter, and feel deeply alienated and objectified. He thought I was some kind of international woman of mystery, like a spy or a rock star. A two-dimensional movie character, a cardboard cut-out. Nothing could be further from the truth - and he should know this! But he didn't, and explaining doesn't help. So my solution was to stop talking, and start showing him, just how incredibly nerdy and boring my life is. I think (hope) his view of me has become more realistic since then, and I hope that continues as time goes on.

Of all of the issues we've discussed here, this is the one that bothers me the most. So many NT women have said that they fell in love with their Aspie because "he was genuinely interested in them as a person." That emphatically has not been my experience. Sometimes I've felt like a copy of Gray's Anatomy in the hands of a teenage boy: I am a dense, complex textbook, but all he can do is giggle at the dirty pictures. There were moments when I felt like a blow-up doll would suit his needs just as well. He comes across as a superficial chauvinist, which is one reason he's had so much trouble with women. I don't believe he is - rather, I think it may be an information processing/executive function issue.

Can anyone explain more about what might be going on there?

I'm more of a pamphlet guy.

Well, that's what he married - and it took the kids, the house, and half his salary.

What's a pamphlet guy?

I interpreted that as, in contrast to a textbook. Maybe I'm wrong?

Correct and I was just kidding.

I wasn't sure - but it is kind of funny! Sorry if I took it too seriously. My sense of humor is just a bit sensitive on this subject.