Serious issues with L&D Forum

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kraftiekortie
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06 May 2016, 8:58 am

This place DOES have hope, contrary to those who "see no hope."

WrongPlanet is much better than most Forum-type websites.



sly279
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06 May 2016, 9:34 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
That's correct. The world is not perfect.

But we should aspire to make it as perfect as possible.

If we have an objective like this, we could evolve and get better.

Without this objective, we just stay the same.

Censoring others opinions because they disagree with doesn't make it perfect. It suppresses people and creates anger and resentment. Embracing and respecting all opinions is the way to go even if you disagree with them strongly

This is why I founding fathers gave us freedom of speech. It's easier to suppress people then respect them.

You all may not like the reality I face but how is ignoring it and censoring me and others for speaking up about it every going to change it for the better.

Imagine if feminism had just been censored by everyone when it began. It certainly ran counter to the common opinion of the time.

It hurts to be told your experience and your proof is invalid no ifs or buts because someone disagrees without anything to support their disbelief.

Most humans are violent hince wars. I'm not violent but that doesn't mean humans aren't. I use to believe her because I was non violent and kind that everyone was , school quickly proved that wrong.

I get a bit defensive in replied but only because people come at me so offensively and have no wiggle room is in their side. No compromise. All or nothing to them. Where's they leave me? Either be defensive or lie and accept their way of thinking despit all the evidence to the conter and the fact their not even from my area and could no nothing about it?

It's against my moral standing to lie.



sly279
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06 May 2016, 9:38 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
This place DOES have hope, contrary to those who "see no hope."

WrongPlanet is much better than most Forum-type websites.


I think so but if we go down this dark road of censoring people if others disagree with them it won't have hope and be no different then a lot of other forums.

What's made this place great is its respecting of differing beliefs.

I want women to feel safe here but not at the expense of men not feeling safe here. Many of us live in fear of being banned from here our only safe place in this shot of a world, because others disagree with us.
Now it's being proposed to make that worse.

I disagree with nurse angal but I don't want to see her banned. Nor even yigern or wilboforce despite that they seem to hate me.



Jacoby
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06 May 2016, 9:41 am

Either have dedicated relationship forum or don't, issues with interpersonal relationships is the signature trait of those on the spectrum is it not? The reality is that most of what is going to be post on here is bitterness, confusion, and pain and to whitewash that would be whitewashing Autism in my opinion. Threads should probably be moderated a little better, stop things from going out of hand and to close threads before they do. Any thread past 10 or so pages on this forum you know is probably going to have trouble, don't let threads become mammoth mudslinging contests. I don't think there is any possible way you can put a positive or 'marketable' face on this part of the forum, not without it being totally fake.



sly279
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06 May 2016, 9:57 am

You have a better way of phrasing stuff.

Though they may called you racist for the whitewashing use



Jono
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06 May 2016, 10:12 am

Jacoby wrote:
Any thread past 10 or so pages on this forum you know is probably going to have trouble, don't let threads become mammoth mudslinging contests.


Not all of them. My OKCupid dating profile thread that I posted a few years ago went on longer than 10 pages and just continued with other people asking for advice on their dating profiles but there was no mudslinging.



alex
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06 May 2016, 10:32 am

Wow. Didn't expect so many responses! I think everyone is posting some great suggestions.

I like the idea of adding more moderators. I also believe that creating a set of guidelines to promote a more positive environment is a fantastic idea.

Jono wrote:
10 pages. Is Alex still following this? I don't know if the thread has veered off topic or not.


Yes I've read the whole thread. It seems to be on topic for the most part but let's try to focus on ideas to resolve these issues.

One problem that hasn't been discussed is bad advice. I've noticed some well-intentioned but bad advice on the forums. I've been contemplating creating a guide for guys who want to get into a relationship and turning it into a sticky.


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TheSpectrum
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06 May 2016, 10:52 am

So, advice on how to give advice?
I guess that'd be a handy resource. Question - who will make and sticky that?
Will the advice be decided by a majority?


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Sabreclaw
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06 May 2016, 11:02 am

So you want good advice, eh? I can't give any advice, but I'd sure love to receive advice on how an introverted, anxious, autistic young chap who has depression triggered from loneliness would get into a long-term relationship. I'm willing to bet there's more people than just me who fall into that category.

I've seen some pretty awful advice on similar issues.



Ban-Dodger
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06 May 2016, 11:58 am

Hey, Alex, you are the founder of this site, yes ? Nice to meet you. Yes, this issue you address can be treated, but first you must understand the nature of human thoughts/emotions with ACCURATE-information (accurate-information that you will NOT get from the main-stream corporate-controlled sources). I might need to message you personally about this so that you can get the full details just in case this reply gets lost or mixed up in a sea of responses. Anyway... I will tell you what's going on and how it can be treated...

alex wrote:
So I've noticed that the L&D forum has devolved and become almost worse than the P&R forum in terms of members fighting with one another.

I'm making this thread because I want suggestions as to how to create a more mellow atmosphere.

I think the majority of the problem stems from members on more extreme ends of the spectrum of beliefs who end up sparring. This includes men who seem to be super bitter about women and also women who seem to be super bitter about men. Both sides are to blame.

I do think the majority of members are actually not causing issues. It's just a small but vocal minority on each side. And the people that post moderate posts also get attacked by people on both sides.

Ideas?

...I do not believe that any form of relationship is accidental but, not to digress, you have surely noticed that some people have better control of stemming themselves from vitriolic-behaviour than others. I am sure you have heard of phrases like "controlled by emotion" and "keeping emotions under control" but, unfortunately, the cause of this phenomenon is very mis-understood. For the record, what I will be claiming CAN be tested, and I HAVE seen the results for myself, from people who have come to me for help, regarding their turbulent-relationships. They eventually tell me that things have become better with them and whomever they were involved with in their relationship.

Anyway, before I get to the heart of the matter, what we need to first establish is the fact that mind-control phenomenon EXISTS. This can be seen in the form of how people change behaviours when intoxicated by substances such as drugs or alcohol. Now I need to extend this "mind-control" phenomenon a bit further, for drugs and alcohol are NOT the SOLE contributors to mood-changing/mind-altering phenomenon. Take the News-Reports of Whale-Beachings, for example, and it is now Official/Public-Record that the whales had beached themselves due to U.S. Navy Sonar-Weapons-Testing. The behaviour of whales were affected due to exposure to Sonar-Frequencies (just like human-behaviour can change or have reactions to thinks like scratching nails on a chalk-board, breathing in certain fumes like laughing gas, etc). Beyond that is psychotronics, that can also affect humans, but I won't go into too much detail on that right now since it's delving into the topic of conspiracies.

Alright, I mentioned all of that, because I want to make a case for Mood-Changing/Mind-Altering phenomenon that exists BEYOND just the intoxications from drugs or alcohol. Next, I will discuss the term of what could be called Radiation-Particles, such as when you are exposed to things like Nuclear-Radiation from Japan's Nuclear Power-Plants related to what is called the Fukushima-Disaster. Some of these corrupted molecular-particles can get into an individual's system but I am not talking about mere radiation. I am referring to a phenomenon that is very similar to radiation-particles infecting and having a "mind-control effect" upon the victims whom are contaminated. I have used other terms for them before, such as dissonance-particles, corrupted radiation-particles, molecular-contamination, etc. You do not necessarily need to give this kind of scientific-background to those individuals who are acting problematic. Just KNOW that the infection has a MIND-CONTROL effect and, the greater the volume of infection, the LESS EASY for the individual to refrain from destructive/negative thoughts/emotions/actions (for a more simplified or archaic-language version of what we can otherwise call this infection, you could refer to it as the "sin" within, but with sin being defined as a NOUN in regards to the particle-infections).

The Treatment : Sometimes, some of these individuals will need to have a bit of a time-out, and rather than out-right having them banned, I believe that we can be amongst the first ever of all of the on-line forums in existence to have an effective manner of rehabilitating these individuals. For extreme/severe cases of social-disruption, give them a brief time-out, such as a temporary suspension BUT, you must ALSO give them the WISDOM that they NEED for being able to LEARN how to better control their thoughts and emotions. Remember, punishment is not the answer, and will usually only make things worse off. Rehabilitation is key, and if you can implement a way to provide them the education that they need to be able to interact in a more PEACEFUL manner with others, I can GUARANTEE you that you WILL see improvements within their behaviours and interactions with others. I have seen plenty of evidence of this, from various people who have visited where I live, who took my advice, and now live more happily.

For some refernce-information, the sources of where I had managed to get this wisdom "translated" from into my current scientific-understanding of human-psychology, originates from a source where I took the time to humble myself and read through, instead of allowing the arrogance of choosing to believe that I was a know-it-all before investigating all of the information for myself... I created that post on Craig's List to make my claims/case stronger by the way.

[The Case For Corrections to the Mistakes of So-Called Scriptures] http://topeka.craigslist.org/rnr/5544151883.html
[One Version of a Rehabilitation-Program For Offenders] http://www.the-testament-of-truth.com/t ... eminar.htm
[Additional Reference-Information Related to the Writings of Terence] http://www.for-giveness.co.uk/

The rest of the sources delve into the para-normal or para-psychology but, due to that kind of a topic being heavily in dispute, I am just going to state very clearly that I do not believe our existence is accurately described as being spiritual. Rather, our existence is entirely technological, everything being a technology. Related to this, I often mention that I had come across some leaked information, describing how Jupiter looks like a dead planet, full of nothing but poisonous-gas if viewed through a regular telescope. That source, how-ever, also described how, when viewed through an extremely high-powered telescope, within the ultra-violet light-spectrums, that Jupiter suddenly looks like a planet that is full of vegetation, and even has entire civilisations living and thriving all over Jupiter. The "archaic" language was to refer to these things as spiritual, then more midieval or modern-day language started using words like para-normal, but as I now understand it with my advanced levels of research, everything about our existence is actually just technology, that is simply not yet understood as being technological.

SAMPLE SUSPENSION-MESSAGE : Dear <insert-name-of-offending member here>, for the sake of reaching out to help you interact more peacefully with our forum-members, a decision has been made to temporarily suspend your ability to post for X days, but this decision was not taken lightly. Some of our members believe in rehabilitation, rather than punishment, and that is why this will only be a temporary suspension, rather than an outright ban.

Our forum-directors have reviewed, and in some cases even tested, various rehabilitation or calming methods that have proven to be effective, from what we have witnessed. That same "wisdom" will now be extended unto you. Following is a review of some of your posts which have led into causing enough alarm for us to take action.

(Insert various posts of reference for Notice-of-Action here...)

Such displays of negative expression from you are actually detrimental to your reputation and mental well-being. Rather than punishing you, all of us wish to provide what is best for you, and so we will ask you of the following from you. All we ask of you, for now, will simply be to practice repeating or reading of the following message to yourself at least three times a day and at any time that you feel like you are about to burst out into a fit of rage, etc.

« I must refrain from expressing my rage upon others, whether materially or verbally, for if I affect others with my anger or negativity in any negative way, then some day sooner than later I may expect to experience the same or similar. Calm down, calm down, self, please calm down, and let us try to build bridges for understanding, instead of erecting walls or weapons of conflict. This is not just for the benefit of the community, but for myself, too. »

Once you have learned how to be able to calm down your own emotions, and keep any negative thoughts from revolving within your mind, you will be welcomed back into being an active participant within our community, and we look forward to hearing from you, and hope that you will also be able to contribute into helping keep our community be peaceful.


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Alliekit
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06 May 2016, 12:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
If you don't want to argue with him, then stop arguing with him!

If he says something against you, then just don't respond to it.

Report it, instead.

...

One of the issues worth mentioning regarding member abuse in the L&D forum - or any forum, for that matter - is the apparently selective inaction by moderators. Once a complaint or report against racism, sexism, or general bullying is made, it is as likely to be ignored or dismissed as it is to be acted upon.

@Alex: Would you please impose stricter guidelines on what the moderators should and should not act upon, how quickly they should act, and dismiss those moderators who have done little or nothing since you've appointed them? Setting standards that everyone (including moderators) must follow for what constitutes racist, sexist, and bullying behavior would go a long way toward resolving conflicts between members, and between members and moderators.

Thank you.


I did report it but heard nothing



Alliekit
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06 May 2016, 12:30 pm

Also a bit rude to refer as someone as she. I am sorry if it seem I was 'easily provoked' I haven't been arpundits aspies and am currently busy with exams.

I also do not appreciate you suggesting I'm something I'm not, usually I'm pretty easy going just with everything that happened I was on the defensive.

I only wished to express my own opinions without someone trying to provoke me. It's not like I'm unreasonable, Sly and I have spoken and understood each others views and have consequently made up.

Perhaps I misunderstood the post where you seemed to say I was silly for only wanting women's opinions?


Edit: that's an actual serious question not sarcasm



Last edited by Alliekit on 06 May 2016, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rdos
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06 May 2016, 12:38 pm

alex wrote:
One problem that hasn't been discussed is bad advice. I've noticed some well-intentioned but bad advice on the forums. I've been contemplating creating a guide for guys who want to get into a relationship and turning it into a sticky.


I don't believe there is any "good advice" (or "bad advice") in general, and most things also depend on neurotype of the people involved. To just copy-and-paste traditional relationship advice will not be of much help since many people here won't have any use for that.



rdos
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06 May 2016, 12:39 pm

Sabreclaw wrote:
So you want good advice, eh? I can't give any advice, but I'd sure love to receive advice on how an introverted, anxious, autistic young chap who has depression triggered from loneliness would get into a long-term relationship. I'm willing to bet there's more people than just me who fall into that category.

I've seen some pretty awful advice on similar issues.


Exactly my opinion.



The_Face_of_Boo
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06 May 2016, 1:01 pm

A lot of projections and false assumptions here....



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06 May 2016, 1:25 pm

A few suggestions:

- Stricter moderation and enforcement of the rules. Furthermore, sanctions should be - more consistently - escalated with repeat rule violations (For instance: Warning -> Suspension - > Longer suspension -> STFU and GTFO)

- Make a rule change to explicitly ban threads/posts advocating pick-up-artistry (PUA) - It's (1) pure misogyny and (2) a tradition that often ruthlessly exploits the social deficiencies of men on the autistic spectrum, so there is no reason for anything more than zero tolerance

- Extend the following part of the PPR rules to the L&D forum (and the rest of the website)

PPR rules wrote:
One final point on these protected groups. While threads can be made discussing "around" sexism, race and sexual orientation, if a member creates a significant number of threads about these topics it may start to look like he has an *agenda* i.e. is pushing the rules a bit too close to the edge attempting to provoke or belittle these groups; in which case moderators will intervene.

(Due to the above the PPR rules are actually stricter than the posting rules for the rest of the site, which is somewhat counter-intuitive and contrary to the objective of the specific PPR rule-set...)

These suggestions may not be directly related to the current issues in L & D, but I think they may be able to address some of the underlying toxicity of this sub-forum...

Oh, and someone (clearly an obnoxious, arrogant, cynical and self-important prick) made the following post about 3 years ago, which I consider highly relevant to the current discussion...

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=242646&p=5448812#p5448812

Now... please excuse me as I run screaming back to civilized society (AKA the PPR sub-forum)...