NT woman at her wit's end with her male Aspie friend

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Please don't take offense at this, I'm going to reply by what I see:

Part of the problem is that you are thinking of all this in NT terms. The fact that your thinking of him as having childish pouting or doing it on purpose to hurt you. I don't think there is ever a hidden agenda. It's possible he is hurting about you being angry. He might think that you don't want to hear from him. Remember, he would take things literal.

Someone explained it once to me, maybe it was ToadofSteel, that when emotions are overwhelming and confused, they can sort of place it aside and not think about it until they have time to process what they feel, like a slow computer. They function with daily tasks but can't think of what to say to a situation. If your having trouble figuring out what to say to him, then he is probably having it 10 worse. Like someone else said, your AF might have more than Asperger's going on so it's hard to say.

At this point, it seems that you are harboring resentment for him and the way he is acting, whether or not he can help it. You need to do more reading about autism and aspergers. If you're waiting for him to start thinking of you and your feelings, that's not going to happen, probably ever. He can't do it. Remember his brain is wired different. It doesn't think like yours.

If you can't move past the angry feelings you have then it might be best to move on and find someone else who can give you what you need. I hope some members here will reply to you because they are the ones who really opened my eyes and helped me see things differently. Even when I thought I knew how it was, I still didn't "get it" at times.

Yeah, there is pretty much never a hidden agenda on the part of an aspie. 99% of the time, you can take an aspie at face value, especially if the subject is very serious, such as in this case... It may not be entirely true, in that it could be self-delusion on his part, but he will generally say what he believes to be true...


Yeah, that was me...

Generally, the more complex the emotion, the harder it is for an aspie to process. At the same time, aspies generally have much better long-term memory, so they can "store" the input for processing later. I experience this all the time, when the sudden impact of what someone said 15 minutes ago finally hits me...


I would have to disagree. Aspies can think about others' feelings, but it takes immense amounts of therapy and it generally doesn't register in a way that an NT would expect...


One of the best tactics when dealing with aspies is to give the benefit of the doubt. If an aspie says or does something to hurt you, he may very well not realize it. When you're alone with him, tell him what he said and precisely how it hurt you. In most cases (generally if the behavior was something directed outwards; this doesn't generally apply to personal habits), if he loves you, he will stop... if he doesn't stop, he probably will never stop, and it's time to either accept that or move on...

I'm not offended at all. Thanks for your frankness. I want that.

ETA: I don't see him as a child pouting, but I don't know when he's actually offended and what could simply be a game to him.




I think his attempts at social behavior, the sort where he isn't in his element (i.e. I'm not a member of one of his hobby groups or a co-worker where there are obvious common interests), have a hint of disingenuousness because he's following a script. This may be why I'm sometimes distrustful.


He doesn't take this so well. And I do not attack him or raise my voice or show emotion. The way I am here is much more emotional than how I am with him on these subjects. I think in the future I'll tell him how I feel in person, but just say it then tell him I'm not interested in an immediate response, just file it for now.



I agree and this is where it's confusing for me. I think in his way, he is trying to make some adjustments. For example, he keeps coming back after these disagreements.

My frustration, which yes, ButterFlair I agree has turned to resentment, stems from not knowing or understanding some specific behaviors. I would like to ask him about them. I think I should write them down (for my sake too) and then ask him to read them and answer them. For example, "When you do A, I don't know which conclusion to come to. Should I think X or Y?"

There's good news though: I think he must agree with the friends thing I wrote, and that's a relief.

I just found this article and it explains what I think I'm sometimes sensing in my friend's conversations. I'm posting it because I find it interesting. Maybe others will too.

http://www.thatexplainseverything.com/t ... ow-i-work/

Here’s what I do. I make it up as I go along. I BS, if you like.

Kids with AS are often referred to as Little Professors, and it’s easy to see why. When it comes to subjects that they are interested in, they can talk at you all day about it. They appear to know everything there is to know about the subject. The things is, generally they don’t. They make stuff up, and extrapolate, yet present everything with that same confidence that makes you think that they know what they are talking about.

I did this as a kid, and as an adult, I still do. The reason is that this is the way I learnt to do things, and I never really appreciated until recently that it might not always be the right thing to do.

Thus, when I get carried away I’ll embellish things that I say with facts and figures that sound right, but are actually made up. I feel justified in doing so, because in my head, the extrapolation of data that I do know, into something that might be true is valid. I know that’s going to sound wrong and illogical to many people, but, well, that’s just the way it is, and there’s no point in me trying to deny it.

Much of the time my extrapolation causes no harm, but from time to time I’ll do it with someone who knows more than me about a subject, and I’ll simply end up looking foolish at best. At worst, I’ll get thought of as a bullshitter and will lose the trust of that person.

There are of course positive aspects to this too - sometimes my extrapolation isn’t BS, and allows me to make connections I’d not previously seen, or to take a leap of faith about something. When it works this way, it’s one of the most useful of my AS traits.

The above behaviour is well documented in AS literature, but the reason behind it isn’t. I’ve been wondering why I approach knowledge in this way, and I think I may have found an answer.

It all boils down to how I learnt to cope with my invisible and undiagnosed AS, and in particular with social interaction. As a child, I copied how other kids interacted. I had to do this to fit in, because I had little in the way of natural ability with social interaction. The sophistication in a lot of social interaction didn’t make sense to me then, and a good deal of it doesn’t make sense to me now, although I’ve learnt over the years to rationalise what I see, and to disguise my lack of understanding.

So, as a child, I spent a good deal of time observing other children, and then recreating what I saw in order to make sense of it. At first, much of this recreation was in my head. I tried to understand what I should say and do, by replaying the interactions of myself and my peers in my head. Eventually, my take on these events was replayed - when faced with a social scenario I acted out what I thought would be appropriate responses, based on what I’d seen my peers doing.

This is the key, I think: When I didn’t understand the expected responses in social situations, I watched what people did, and stored away the responses to use later. Faced with a similar scenario at a later date, I extrapolated a response from the data I had available.

There’s that word again - extrapolate.

Extrapolating data to camouflage my weakness in social interaction worked well, and I use it to this day.

Perhaps the reason that I sometimes pass off extrapolated BS when presenting knowledge is simply because extrapolation of data was how I learnt to cope with my poor social skills as a child. I made up answers to my social problems based on the data I’d gathered through observation of my peers, just like I present made up data as fact when I get carried away.

This article, of course, is also based on an extrapolation of data, and as such could equally well be BS. Is it? Well, I don’t think so. I think this falls into the category of making connections and leaps of faith. I hope you agree.

Oookay...I'm about to say something that will most likely make any readers ask whether I've been reading peoples' replies or if I'm thinking at all. We all know what I've avoided for a while and that's that my feelings for my friend have been and are going much more toward the "romantic" side.

Should I just go ahead and tell him that? My reasoning is that I'd rather just put it out there, especially (and who knows why this makes a difference, but it does) since he didn't say he disagreed with my "let's be friends" message.

Thoughts?

Yes you should. Mayby not now, but in time, when you are sure you're friends again. You might want to add something like "I hope it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable." And don't expect any reply on that part.


You can neither capture or tame the unicorn, it only comes and stays by it's own free will.

BIG update:

Even though we have hung out a lot and spent the night at one another's homes and at times after more than a few drinks, we never once touched each other. For 8-10 months.

This weekend that changed. It was fun, sweet, affectionate, nice. ETA: No, we didn't have sex but we made out (to put it in adolescent slang, we got to 2nd base, at least), cuddled, slept, etc.

Of course, this now complicates matters as I'm not sure what we are at all. I did not feel like talking about it at the time, although I did say that since we'd spent many a night, some drunk, together and had never fooled around, he couldn't use that excuse to explain what happened this weekend. I said this to him in a half-joking fashion.

About 4-5 days before this weekend I wrote and asked him to go out with me this weekend (for personal reasons, it was an important anniversary for me and I asked him to be a part of it) and also reiterated how much I liked him, valued him, etc. I said he was the only person I wanted to spend it with, which was true.

So, now what?

That's going to be an issue for much of any relationship with an aspie. We don't bolt down the first base line and around the bases... we can stop short of first, run out into the stands, jump back down and run through the dugout, and slide into the pitcher's mound...

In other words, don't expect to know exactly where you stand, because most likely he doesn't know either...

Just out of curiosity, why do you say this now but not earlier? Couldn't that be applied to my whole relationship with AF?

Here's the funny thing: I feel like I have a better understanding of him now, not that I necessarily "know" him better simply because we got physical (I'm not that delusional), but he's far less of a mystery to me and that's not something that I would have predicted.

Honestly? I didn't think of that until you posted your previous post...


Well then, that means we're doing our job here at WP...

I've decided that I've had it with AF though with no hard feelings, which is new. As anybody who has read this thread knows I've had a lot of resentment in the past.

He couldn't tell me what he wanted before the weekend we finally had physical interaction, and nothing has changed. I haven't seen him since then and he's indicated that he may not want to see me.

I'm hurt but relieved in a way because yes, I have been at my wit's end.

I won't cut him out of my life (if he hasn't cut me out of his) but will seek distance.

Perhaps he has come to the conclusion that I'm not worth the work. I know I tried but ultimately if he isn't willing, what is there to work on?

You certainly tried. And it is good you have gotten passed the resentment before taking this step.

I am sorry it didn't work out, you put a lot of effort into it.

Good luck in the future.

One problem remains, though, and that is he might be trying to hurt himself by hurting you [emotionally].

Here are his thoughts: If you are hurt, he is hurt. And if he is hurt, he deserves to be felt sorry for. If nobody does, it complies to his expectations: Nobody understands him, not even you. But if you leave him, you will absolutely devastate him.

I believe his greatest dream in the entire world is for you to drop everything you hold and run to his house, ring the bell and throw yourself in his arms.

EDIT: Oh, and one other thing. He will never be loved enough.

Thanks CJ. I too am satisfied that I'm not acting or reacting from hurt or anger which at times was what I'd been doing. After we "made out" I really felt I understood him better: that I finally understood that much of his treatment toward me was not personal nor malicious, which I knew intellectually but didn't really accept. Sadly, the issues that make communication so difficult are what has caused me to seek distance but now I really do understand that not only is it not personal but probably far more painful for him than I understood. Had I understood that earlier, I would have changed how I behaved. That fact makes me sad, I wish that could be different.

The past is the past. You should learn from it, but don't dwell on it.

I think you have it right, it wasn't personal. That is not to excuse his behavior, I think he would be happier if he learned different ways to cope. But that is just me.

So, any plans for this weekend?

What did he say when he implyed that he don't want to see you?