The 48 Laws of Power

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But in this case it might be considered "reckless endangerment."

LOL, I made a thread about this issue once. I really don't believe any of us are perfect.

I seem to have a rough time in engaging or chatting in socially appropriate coversations. But what I find more difficult is to try and keep from laughing at some of the things most people would find appalling. I think it helps when one tries not to take themselves too serious.

Do I have to point out that most aspies by nature are more sociopath then aspies. In the majority of cases it is subconscious, so often they believe they have integrity when they do not, they may truly believe they are not playing being manipulative when they are.

You must remember that aspies do not have bad luck in aspie world because of lack of integrity. Just last week, I went to church with a friend, the pastor prayed for me, one of the prays was I was friendless. How would he know? Why would any aspie be friendless and without a date when he has so much integrity with a healthy willingness to learn. It bags the question are sociopaths attractive.

You may hear some people say to you that you need to grow as a person before you are ready for a relationship. But how much growing does someone bloody need at 36. I just do not see that growth a high percentage of NTs.

Ok, Many of the socially gifted aspies my attribute your luck to having integrity but I don’t see it any different to NTs who preach integrity and who are sociality gifted enough to either uphold it or consciously not willing or subconsciously not aware that they are not upholding it.

I blame the testosterone.

I blame the fact that i just dont care bout people/society too much

I've read this book and two others by the same author. They're very interesting reading, and probably useful for NT's, but with Aspies, it's sort of like giving a child dynamite and a match, or someone without a pilot's license the manual and keys to a F-16. There's a lot of questionable stuff in there, things that Aspies will have a hard time pulling off successfully. Generally the prerequisites for the knowledge in this book are social competence and the ability to judge the impact and nuances of your social actions, areas which Aspies are lacking in.

I took advice from this book and another, and generally found the advice to some extent to be more trouble than it was worth. Still worth reading, just don't emulate everything or take it at face value.

Btw, I'm sure you can find a used copy a lot cheaper than 48 pounds (I mean please) -- Amazon has new copies for 11 bucks, and you can get it used for around $5. I personally just got the pdf p2p.

How could you ever support something like this? This is where all those "manipulative aspies" we keep hearing about come from: aspies that read books like this and internalize them... and they usually turn out more back-handed and manipulative than the average NT, with none of the social grace to offset that...

Exactly, thus my "Don't try this at home, kids!" disclaimer.

However, from a pure reading enjoyment perspective, Robert Greene writes great books. Lots of great historical insight, especially on things we aren't given that much detail on in school. Toad, you should give them a try (he has 3 major books) -- all are very interesting and don't talk down to the reader or dumb things down. Ignore the "life advice," but enjoy the History -- I know I did.

You can buy 'The Prince' by Niccolo Machiavelli on amazon for around £3 as all the laws in that '48 laws' book are lifted directly from 'The Prince'. It's a good read and pretty short, well worth a look.

Last edited by Hmmmn on 15 Jun 2009, 1:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

It's good for the naive among us to understand how people like this operate. Not to copy, but just to protect yourself.


I've been trying to make sense of this and it's not working.
What's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?

The definitions I read keep switching sides, even within the same article, by the same author.

The main difference they describe seems to be that one gets away with it and the other doesn't. Neither cares about the difference between right and wrong or about how someone else feels. One has a more organized personality and is able to fake it, to understand and manipulate. The other is more erratic and deals on impulse. One tends to be more like a con artists while the other tends to be violent.

Asperger's is about understanding what makes others tick.
That's a separate issue from whether you care about the welfare of someone else.

Vagrant (Me): Don't know/Do care. I refuse to hurt people. I annoy people because I don't understand the games. If I were a man, I'd have been homeless all of my adult life.
Dictator: Do know/Don't care. A con artist.
Common Criminal: Don't know/Don't care. Can't get it together enough to do subtle damage.
Benevolent leader: Do know/Do care. Good luck finding one. Think Ghandi and other saints who managed somehow to find that balance.

Putting real people in firm categories doesn't work. Everybody is different and everything is relative. It's a reality roulette.

Sometimes you can find a relationship that's mutually beneficial, and if you're both smart enough you can leave it at that and just enjoy it. Most people won't do that. They're never satisfied until they find a way to take more than you are willing to give.

The difference between a sociopath and a psychopath is you, and whether he's smart enough to con you, and whether you can protect yourself from a predator.

"You can't cheat an honest man." To me, the con games are so transparent that I can barely see them. Half the time, I don't even understand what it is that they want me to believe or why they think I should believe it. If I don't play, they can't win, which pisses them off. That's when they become openly abusive. (In other words, all the time.)

48 Laws is more fun though (The Prince is fairly dry), and draws on more Historical examples. If I had to read either again, I'd choose 48 Laws.

Many of the 48 rules are strategy based rules, something you plan ahead in advanced, unlike the many of the body language rules that require you to think about them while executing them in the thick of social interaction.

Here are some that I think aspies can benefit from.
Law 4
Always Say Less than Necessary
I remember a old film, called Being There, about a gardener with learning difficulties, am man of few words who pulls this off without even knowing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Being_There

Law 5
So Much Depends on Reputation – Guard it with your Life
At work, I made the mistake of releasing VBA code before it has been fully tested. That lost me much reputation. An experienced system developer would recognise my skills, but you regular NT Joe Bogs probably think I have less skills then University Undergraduate.

Law 10
Infection: Avoid the Unhappy and Unlucky
Being at the bottom of the social pecking order, we probably befriend an unhappy and unlucky NT. All my ex girlfriends had a degree of this, even a recent aquatence, who a practice Salsa with at her place, is more willing then me to express her unhappiness. I guess that’s why I am very good at deceiving people about my level of happiness and content-ness; it is a very important survival trait.

Know Who You’re Dealing with – Do Not Offend the Wrong Person
There are many different kinds of people in the world, and you can never assume that everyone will react to your strategies in the same way. This is especially true when you to talk logically to a very NT oriented thinker.

Law 29
Plan All the Way to the End
The ending is everything. Plan all the way to it, taking into account all the possible consequences, obstacles, and twists of fortune that might reverse your hard work and give the glory to others. By planning to the end you will not be overwhelmed by circumstances and you will know when to stop. Gently guide fortune and help determine the future by thinking far ahead.
Law 38
Think as you like but Behave like others
If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.

Aspie_chav -

I do like those rules (many of which can be boiled down to "When in doubt, keep your mouth shut"), but I still wonder if it's going to have the Aspie end up wrapped up in his own head instead of acting on the moment, or second-guessing himself too much.

Like I said, I like the books by Greene a lot, but I would still recommend "How to Make Friends and Influence People" to an Aspie before this series of books.

I did buy that book some time ago, but sadly could not remember any of it. I don’t know if the same rules applies to this book but for many book of this nature would help you to make friends and influence people; however, they will end up making you uphold decency and integrity at your own expense. It would be like learning to be a used-car salesman from a Buddhist Centre or buying a Christian book on how to have great sex.

I've reread "How to Win Friends" a few times over the years -- most of the advice is very practical. I'm not a religious person, nor am I someone who likes to let people walk all over me.

In my mind, Aspies should read constructive books in this order:

1. Books on body language and social rules/conversational skills

2. Books like "How to Win Friends" that discuss mid-level social conventions and the "middle game" of social interaction, as well as good long-term skills and strategy. I'd also recommend any of the Anthony Robbins books.

3. Once the above two become familiar and integrated into the person's system of approaching the world, "48 Laws of Power" is like the Phd or Masters where you learn the finer points of social interaction and ways to tune what you have learned already. Machiavellian tactics require a discerning mind with experience to apply the toolset in a way that fits that person.

To me, having the ordinary Aspie pick up "48 Laws" is like having a beginning Mandarin student pick up the "I Ching". It's a lot to handle at once, and I wonder if the average full-out Aspie has the skillset to recognize the situations they are faced with, and make the right interpretation and decisions.

Crap like this, is why this world is so screwed up. People do stuff to benefit themselves, and they don't care about how it affects other people. We need more, caring, genuine, honest, and straight-forward people.