Another question for the women...

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Well, my advice still stands, be honest and do it quickly! Stop taking so much time to make up your mind =P. Futile advice, I know =P.
But i'm reading fear also. Dont be afraid to ask someone out to discover and speed up the process of making up your mind. There's nothing wrong with going out on one date with someone to figure out more about how you feel about them. Seems like you're using friendship as your vehicle to getting to know the opposite sex, obviously not directly or intently, but you could take more action yourself. Be more proactive.
There seems to be a lotta confusion on this board on the difference between a date and dating. Two COMPLETELY different things. You can ask a girl on a date, go out with her, discover you dont like her and move on. You dont have to know her for years, or months or even weeks to develop a seed of lust/desire/romance for her then ask her out on a date with the hopes of it turning into a relationship. Ask them out first if for even a moment you thought they were kinda pretty, or flashed a cute smile, or said one thing kinda funny, or shared one story you could relate to.
Basically, dont wait in the shadows to make up your mind. You are having this problem of meeting women and them turning to friends before you have the chance to make up your mind while you should be seeing it as not a problem because you are apparently in some kind of situation, or have some kind of personality that is attracting female companionship. So, I guess, stop waiting.

I dont think it will make things impossile for you ToS.

I was friends with my lover first and he did not tell me he liked me for several months from when I first knew him. However Im sure it would have had the same result if he had not said he liked me for much longer than that, even years.

I think if you like someone then it doesnt matter about time or being friends first.

So stop oversharing with me ,buddy.

>> I make friends with just about everyone I get to know, regardless of gender...

Clearly, your personality and interpersonal skills must be pretty good. My guess is that there might be something missing in the physical package. How are your looks? How is your style?

If you think your wardrobe and hairstyle might be part of the problem, get one of your most fashionable friends to help you with a makeover. I know Aspies get used to wearing the same comfy things again and again, but they get faded, worn, stretched out and eventually fall apart. Same with the hair: some Aspies hate having to go to a bright, glaring salon, let someone wash your head, and then pull on your hair while enduring scissor noises and weird chemical smells in the air -- but a good haircut is key to making a good impression.

Let your fashionable friend identify the items which are dragging down your appearance. Have the friend bring over some fashion magazines, or go online and look at mens' fashions, to get some ideas of what is stylish and that you like. Try to keep an open mind: don't let the initial "this is unfamiliar" become "I don't like it".

When Get some money together and go shopping. You can even hit thrift stores if money is tight. Also have them help you figure out whether a new hairstyle might help, new glasses if you wear them, and don't forget shoes, a nice bag, a nice coat, etc. Make sure you stay clean and keep your facial hair groomed neatly, or shave it off altogether.

Keep in mind that the idea is not to become a different person or to go against your personal sense of style. The idea is to be comfortable AND look good: because these things together can give a big confidence boost, which can help you feel brave enough to start dating. Let us know how things go!

I was friends with my boyfriend for 8 or 9 months before anything really happened. For me, generally I am attracted to someone or I'm not. I knew when I first met my boyfriend that I found him interesting in a way that could lead to more than friendship, but I didn't think he'd be interested. There have been quite a few guys I'm friends with who I would have been interested in if they had asked, and a couple who asked and I turned down. For me I either feel the possibility or I don't.

The way it worked for me was we started spending a lot of time together and eventually we kind of decided there was something there we wanted to act on. All I'd suggest is if there is someone you've decided seems potentially interesting in the more than friends direction, make more of an effort to spend time with them. Just organise bowling or pub trips or cinema or something in a group with them. Maybe talk to them there one on one a bit, see how the conversation goes - whether they seem enthusiastic to talk to just you or not. Always be ready to invite other people to things and sometimes no one else might be interested. My boyfriend and I found we had an overlap in music tastes so went to some gigs together, first with other people then just us when no one else was interested.

Just as a disclaimer, I have no idea what I'm talking about I'm just trying to think back to how we went from being friends to more than that... good luck

Yes, lots. She may be in your circle of friends right now and have spent the last month desperately sending you non-verbal signals that you have not picked up.

I think the problem here may be that women are attracted to you just fine. However, all of this will be signaled non-verbally and so it has probably been going past you and you didn't notice. If you don't notice for a very long time, the woman will just give up, figure you aren't interested, and then stay firmly in the friend zone.

I wrote upthread and will repeat, if you don't feel that you can pick up these non-verbal signals at all, enlist the help of a friend to observe you and your female friend(s) and report back to you what body language he saw. There may be something really obvious (to an NT) going on that a frustrated woman is signaling you non-verbally and you are oblivious. I suggest a male friend who already has a girlfriend because he will have practice reading these signals. You don't want to unwittingly enlist the help of a guy who is as oblivious to the signals as you.


Once upon a time a very long time ago, I spent about 2 months frantically sending non-verbal signals to a guy I knew and was attracted to. Nothing ever happened and I eventually gave up. I figured all these years that he just wasn't interested. It absolutely never occured to me that he may have been an Aspie who just didn't notice (or maybe he really wasn't interested). The thing is, any woman you are currently friends with is going to send you non-verbal signals for awhile if she is attracted and then she will eventually give up. It absolutely will not occur to her that you just don't "read" non-verbal signals. It certaionly never occured to me. I am going on the theory that since you easily befriend, you have a warm personality that women like. I am also going on the theory that it is statistically likely that at least some of these women have found you attractive, sent non-verbal signals to you, and then decided you weren't interested after you didn't repsond to those signals.

So enlist a male freind to help you read the women in your life. You may be pleasantly surprised at what has been right in front of you all along.

I don't really see what the problem is. I like dating friends.. you already know them well and presumably have things in common. I think the 'friend zone' is just a polite way of saying they think you are ugly.

In my experience, making friends easily doesn't necessarily mean one will make lovers easily... the very existence of the friend zone is evidence of that...

I think a great deal of my issues come from the fact that my definition of "lover" is incompatible with the rest of the world. To me, love is a progression from a close friendship. Love can take many forms: romantic, familial, etc... Each form of love has its own specific traits (romantic love has sexual attraction added, for example)... What all those forms have in common is that they are based on friendship. So for me, being a friend is pretty much a prerequisite for being a lover... And that's what really confuses me about people getting into romantic relationships almost instantaneously and then breaking up almost as quickly...


But following some of the other posts here, wouldn't that mean that even if a theoretical woman that is otherwise attracted to em has given up on me, wouldn't she still be open to the idea of a relationship after I finally get it all worked out that I like her as well?


I understand the premise, but how does one go about actually accomplishing this? It seems even more complicated than trying to decipher body language myself...

Last edited by ToadOfSteel on 01 Aug 2009, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I should note that I dated a girl for little over 4 years, and I was friends with her for almost 3 years before that.

Yes, most likely she would. But you have to know WHICH of these women is sending you signals (and I strongly suspect that some of them have been and you've been missing it). That's why I advise enlisting the help of a male friend to read the body language for you.

I agree with the people suggesting you get a friend to observe your interaction. I always like being friends before jumping into dating. I don't really "date" anyways. It starts with doing stuff with friends and then eventually it turned more physical. I like sharing *a lot* with people I'm close to. Maybe when first becoming friends I wouldn't share a ton, but spending some time with people (even just a week), I can start sharing a lot. And I like things to be shared with me. I don't think it can get "too personal" with me, though sometimes I get nervous rejection will happen because of that.

I tried to get myself out of the friend zone one time, and the woman I was pursuing kept giving all these excuses for not dating me.

And this was with another Aspie!

Don't even bother with getting yourself out of the friends zone after interacting with some girl for more than several hours without any sort of sexual tension building up. Like somebody already said above, the whole "let's just be friends" thing is the polite way for a girl to say that she thinks you're ugly, but likes you as a person in a platonic way.

You can only climb out of the friends zone with girls that are initially attracted to you.

I had been talking to this person for two months, and she asked if I wanted to take things to the next level, and I was nervous at first, but the next day, I said yes. Then she said that she wasn't ready for a relationship, and even then, couldn't do anything long-distance (there was about to be a 300-mile gap separating us, which is now 100 miles).

I may not even have her as a friend anymore.

That isn't your fault... she was the one who suggested it..