would love feedback: relationship with a new mom,yayornay?

Post Reply New Topic

Not all pregnancies are planned.

Based on the OP's description, she is in her early 20s. True, Aspies aren't the only ones who can be naive in relationships, but it's very obvious that this new mom has no problems getting around. The OP doesn't admit that her getting pregnant is merely a guess. He says specifically,



Nobody said that her workplace perceives her as the "office slut". Sure, they can rally around her especially if the relationship she had with the guy who got her pregnant was her first office relationship. Nobody knew how she would be when it first happened. All they see is that the guy is a deadbeat. The OP would've been the second. The guy in his 40s would be the third. Third workplace love interest in 6 months, especially after how the first relationship ended? It looks more like she got over things really quickly; six months isn't really such a long time. By the way, what kind of workplace is this?

You blame the OP for carrying a grudge, but really it's not surprising that there are trust issues involved here. As the OP said, she spurned him very early on, preferring to go with the guy who got her pregnant. When that relationship ended, she turned to the OP. The impression the OP gives us is that the OP is merely second pickings, not her first choice, and the OP knows it. When the OP said no, it doesn't look like she sat at home and cried about it or anything for weeks, like you'd expect her to if she actually loved the OP. Instead, the impression is that she thought, "ok, you said no, time to get another guy!" as casually as though she were going shopping and trying on a new pair of shoes. This impression comes from the fact that the OP had not given any indication that she felt bad at all that he declined her proposition that they go to the next level.

Also, her most recent romantic relationship with the guy in his 40s suggests that she is looking for something other than just emotional support. When you're in a relationship with that large an age disparity (he is nearly double her age), it will naturally start to take on aspects of a father-daughter relationship, e.g. he can provide for her material needs, etc., simply because the abilities and maturity levels of the two people are so disparate. This is just a bit too convenient for her, particularly with a newborn in tow.

I say run away and be quick about it. There appears to be something missing in her life that she is continuously trying to fill by being with men and in the meantime, her priorities are getting pretty messed up. What she needs to do is focus on her daughter and getting her life together, not look for another bedmate. I think you're wise to keep your distance. Good luck.

To the OP, there are too many red flags there. However, leaving aside her being a mom, did she think you saying "not now" was you trying to let her down gently and she thought you actually meant "never"? Did she misinterpret and feel hurt?

May be projecting here, but my ex (who WANTED A FAMILY) dumped me when I was pregnant. 10 years ago, and it shattered what was left of my self esteem. Doesn't matter what anyone says about my appearance, I can never feel attractive again, I nearly died in childbirth and when I read stuff implying single mothers are sluts on the make, I wish they had let me die. More than AS, this limits my life. Before my ex, I did not have issues about dating/ getting dates, ( or travel, or career plans) now I have had to adjust to going to my grave alone. It's frightening.

I don't know if that's the case with this girl. She probably needs friends though (amazing how many of THEM you lose once your a parent as well).

And this doesn't help. As the worry about pedophiles means means you also have to be suspicious of anyone who IS accepting of a single parent, or would want to be part of a readymade family.

Thank you to Stinkypuppy, Sqrannel, Janissy, Lene, Zsazsa, Billsmithglendale, Tias, Willard, Lelia, MDD123, and CelticGoddess for taking time out to help me, I am grateful for it. I think Sqrannel has come the closest to expressing how I was feeling and my concerns, especially with his 2nd and 3rd posts. Let's see if I can try and go through some of the points some of you have raised....

First off, I want to make it clear that I don't think she is a bad person just in case anyone has gotten that impression. Sure I'm not happy about a lot of things that went down but she is a lovely woman. Loves her daughter, great mom. She knows I've loved her b/c I have told her this. And also because I was there for her when few others were.

You bring up the 'user' angle. I want to make it clear that I am not judging anyone out there if any of you are like her in that you use people for sex. Not to get graphic, but she loves sex. She is insatiable unlike anyone I have ever met ( and she admits it/isn't afraid to admit it). So if you want to call it using someone, I felt she wanted to use me for sex. About a month after I said "no" to her (which I again, I said "not yet" but whatever), she was telling me about how she took a day off from work to go visit a stranger and to have sex with him. THIS KILLED ME. There was the selfish angle, because, me and her hadn't even been to that level together (it was there whenever I wanted it, but again, I wanted to hold off and try to see if this would be a better way to create something lasting and healthy). So this random stranger gets to be that way with her before I am?? But yes, I did say "no." Also, I felt immense jealousy. Also, even if I had no romantic feelling for her whatsoever, I was still very concerned b/c I consider that to be risky behavior to meet up with strangers and f*** them. If you disagree, I guess that's an argument for another day, I'm not trying to judge it. I guess if you are really really interested in sex, then whatever I guess.



I have absolutely adored her daughter and would have done anything for her. I have had my self-interest in mind all along like anyone, but because her daughter was only 4 months at the time last year, I wondered if amping things up to the next level with mom was the best thing for mom AND daughter. That's my main underlying question. Was my concern misguided about this? Maybe I was overly influenced by watching too much Gilmore Girls. I think on there, Lorelai (the single mom) talked about how she was very sensitive to having too many men come into her life because of how that might be a hard thing for a young child to see/understand. I wish there was a right or wrong answer, because I don't know if there is one or not.



OUCH!! Haha just kidding. Thank you for sharing your experience. You are absolutely right, technically speaking, at that moment, I said no to her. She wasn't married to me. I just felt like, it was my turn to dictate certain expectations if she wanted to do things right with me after everything that had happened before. It would have been RIDICULOUSLY easy to be with her at that point, at least from a desire standpoint. But I wanted her to understand some things. She just had a daughter by the guy she first chose over me. I'm a guy, we have our pride for better or for worse. I've seen how she is at work, with me and her father's daughter and others. She is about to return to work after maternity. If I am going to sleep with you and really go all in with you, build a life together which was being bandied about together, I wanted to see some changes. I'm also 5 hours away as I said, and toying with moving back to the area after leaving law skool, but I wanted to first prove to myself that I could be a capable provider for her and her daughter, so I wanted to get the job thing in order too. And again, I can't overstate this, I was VERY WORRIED about the fact that she had a 4 month year old. I felt like if I am giving in to my agenda in really wanting her, am I then being selfish? B/c it's not just with her we're talking about, we also have an innocent baby. But again, MAYBE i over analyzed that piece of it. Maybe if it wasn't a big deal to her, then it shouldn't have been to me? She knows more about being a parent than I do after all, so who knows. But for me, it wasn't simply a matter of "carpe diem go get her."

Be right back on some other comments and responding to other questions.

Dylan, I realise my experiences have absolutely nothing to do with your circumstances and this girl....please don't infer any criticism from me and my previous post, you sound completely honourable.

Sorry . I have issues.

I know you're a good person Dylan, but you're placing too much responsibility on yourself. You didn't make that kid and you aren't responsible in any way to her. I read your posts and you write a paragraph about how you should be helping out with the kid. I think you're more obligated to yourself than to anyone else at this point. Congrats on making it to law school!

Hello Ligea_Seroua! Thank you for sharing your experience and giving feedback, you have absolutely nothing to be sorry about. You sound like such a lovely person. I'm sorry to hear about what happened between you and your ex when you were pregnant. You didn't deserve that. I truly hope you will consider again opening your heart to the possibility of being in love again. I'm sorry if my postings triggered any hurtful memories.

I will deviate a bit off topic for a moment b/c I think a few of you inquired about the little detail I included about how I felt the female lead in question in this story got pregnant on purpose. I hold this opinion b/c the father told me that she told him she was on birth control, but in actuality, this was not the case so they ended up having unprotected sex. Because he thought she was on the pill, he too, did not use any protection. In a polite way I later broached this topic with her and she didn't deny it. Now in a court of law (not that anyone is on trial here!), I obviously couldn't prove 100% that she got pregnant on purpose. But I also know that at that time, appx. 80% of the women in that workplace were single moms, with everyone showing off their kids pics in their cubicles, that sort of thing. I think in a way that maybe she felt a little bit left out? Just a theory I had, or maybe she just really had a strong yearning to be a mom as soon as possible. Either way, I don't judge it, it doesn't matter to me if she wanted to get pregnant at that time shortly after beginning to date this guy, or if this was a pure accident. What gets me though, is how since that time, she has confided in me that she feels the father is a dumb**s. Now I have NEVER said this, but I have sometimes felt like saying, "If you think this is true, then be grateful! Because if he weren't a dumb**s, then you wouldn't have your precious daughter who has brought you great joy, b/c more than likely daddy in question would have used some protection of his own). But that's neither here nor there I guess.

Haha I probably do lack in the self-respect department, definitely in self-esteem.



Maybe I should have left the abortion piece out of this. I think abortion is wrong personally but I probably got off track for including it. I felt very badly for her. Automatically like a reflux, all of the other ladies in the office were going to rally behind a pregnant gal just dumped, because it does seem like an awful thing to do, regardless of any lying that happened that may have played a major role in the pregnancy.

Also for the record, she is NOT a slut or a tramp. I am very sorry if I have given this impression. Fortunately, no one here knows her so I don't have to worry about her reputation being hurt by anything said. I appreciate what you say (or maybe imply) Lene about how she shouldn't have had to prove herself to me. Maybe it was perfectly unreasonable for me to put things off a bit with us instead of jumping in. I had a lot of concerns, but maybe that's why it's good to air them on here to see if others disagree with me. As for your saying I "bear a grudge" so I wouldn't make a good friend, I think I have always been there for her and she sees this. It would be hard to not be in one another's life. I wouldn't say it's some grudge to make it sound like i'm just a vengeful stubborn guy who can't put the past behind him, b/c I believe that the past can inform the present and the future so I can't just ignore it entirely.



He was the type of guy that didn't care about her other than sleeping with her. I knew it all along, which doubly made it difficult when she was with him. "Hesitation may be considered a virtue here"---See I appreciate you saying this, but it's interesting I think that another guy agrees with this, but Lene a gal and maybe even most women thinks that's silly.



I found out that she never understood my concern for jumping into a relationship with a new mom. That idea is entirely out of left field for her and doesn't make any sense, which I think was why I felt the need to air things on her and am grateful for all the feedback. She is going to call me tonight at midnight. I just wonder if there will be an Act 3 in store for us. As Lene says, maybe I should just "carpe diem" and stop thinking. I don't know anymore.

You're the nicest guy I know, you still think she isn't a tramp. I haven't even met her and I can already tell. I was in a similar situation and it took me awhile to figure it out. Just part of life. If you don't carpe diem, and fast, you could end up finding out the hard way. I can see her marrying you for emotional/financial support, then having mr badboy/hotstuff on the side. Carpe diem and let someone else deal with her.

Well thank you but really not all that nice. This morning at 5 am we talked and I told her that I could no longer be her friend. She didn't take it well at all, but I realized that I can't pretend anymore to be friends with a woman I have had strong feelings for. Wouldn't be right for anyone. It will be hard for awhile probably especially since at the moment I don't exactly have a plethora of female friends. But me and her, I think we were always destined for either all or nothing. There couldn't be much of a middle ground although she disagreed. But looking back I don't think I would have changed a thing. When she made the ultimatum originally about going all in, I felt I had to choose between what I really wanted (her) and what I felt was the right thing to do for her, her child, and for myself. I'm probably not making much sense anymore, my mind is pretty muddled. Thank you though for the comment MDD123.

You're doing the right thing, I'd just start over again and take what you've learned, you're still in your early 20's, so you have plenty of time to meet a good person. Good luck!

I've got to add or really emphasize one last question on my mind I have that I hope someone can answer, and really it's the question I posed at the outset! It's my fault it was never directly answered b/c I added a lot more details, but let me just isolate one variable out of this.

Did I have a valid concern when thinking that someday when her daughter is older, it might not be comfortable telling her daughter that just months after her birth, she was already on the make with a man that was not her daughter's father? Might that be at least a little bit confusing for a child? Is that the kind of behavior you'd like for her to model? Is it right to set the example of meeting strangers in motels?
I know if I had a daughter someday, i wouldn't want to tell her i was seeing someone other than her mom right after she was born.

So again, it comes back to whether it's right to start something with a brand new mom. Also, is she especially vulnerable at this point in time, due to the fact of having been spurned by the child's father? Is she generally going to be ready for a serious relationship at this time?

Was this a valid concern I had about the child's well-being or was I off base with this?

Haha yeah after my 2 posts on your thread I realized that this was the question that seemed to be bugging you the most:

Is it wrong for a new mom to jump into a new romantic relationship with a man who isn't the newborn's father?

And perhaps one reason that a lot of us don't answer the question is that we don't know the answer to that question. It's a bit of a moral/judgment call, really.

Is it bad for a child to find out that her mom was ready to make out with another man months after her birth? It depends on a lot of things. If the biological father were dead, would it be so bad? If the biological father ran off with another woman, would it be so bad? Would you even be telling a child about romantic relationships? I think that a young child needs stability. Since the biological father appears to be out of the picture altogether, whether mom raises daughter with you in the picture or not is not critical. The only thing I'd say is that if you decide to be there, then stay there for the daughter. If you don't decide to be there, then as long as you stay out of the daughter's life, then the daughter will not know any difference. But don't jump in and out of her life. If she comes eventually to look at you as a kind of father figure, she will grow up to resent your inconsistency and lack of devotion to her.

As for the question about whether her mom's behavior is something that the daughter should model when the daughter is older, it's a judgment call. Some people have very open relationships sexually. I, like you, would personally not engage in something like that, but I think that if both people are honest and upfront about everything and keeping the communication lines open, the better.

Thanks for explaining to us how you came to conclude that she got pregnant on purpose. I am assuming that the guy would not have had unprotected sex with her if he knew the truth. Her flat out lying to the guy that she was on birth control is unforgivable. I can accept the fact that she may be a sex addict or really really love sex, but to lie about something like that is almost like trying to make the guy have a lifelong commitment (the child) without his consent. Either that, or she just wanted sex so much that she'd lie to the guy just so she can get her fix. To me that's similar to telling the guy that she's HIV-negative when she knows she's positive, just so she can get sex. It's an absolutely reprehensible and selfish act.

I think it's unfortunate that you felt that you can no longer be friends with her, but at the same time I think you're very wise to take things slowly and with careful thought. She seems to be the kind of person to rush headfirst into every situation without really thinking about what she's doing. Her attitude will cause a lot of problems down the road, problems that really aren't your responsibility to deal with. Good luck to you!

It is a valid concern about the child's well-being. The main thing I think that will affect this girl is not the interval of time after she was born that her Mom hooked up with a man not her biological father. The main thing that will affect her is how many times it happens during her childhood. If a new man comes into her mom's life and stays there, he will simply be percieved as Dad. She'll be curious about her biological Dad but will identify most with the man who has been a permanent part of her life.

However, I get the feeling that such continuity is unlikely. Lack of continuity of a Dad is very unhealthy for the child. Stinkypuppy pretty much spelled it out. What this girl needs is either for no man to come into her mom's life, or for only one man to come into her mom's life and stay there and be perceived as dad/stepdad/father figure (mom's permanent boyfriend). You shouldn't date a mom (unless her children are grown) unless you are prepared to become a consistent father figure in her child's life. A relationship with a mom is a relationship with her children. (And vice versa for any women contemplating dating men with children.)

If you aren't ready to be a stepdad, you aren't ready for a relationship with a single mom- for the sake of the child. Unfortunately this baby girl will probably have major issues if this is mom's true modus operandi. There isn't anything you can do about that but "step off the tracks" as somebody else said and not become part of what is sure to be this baby girl's future psychological problems.

You're assuming honesty here, for all you know, her mother could tell her that the new man in her life was always her dad, or cover up any prepartum shennanigans. I know it from experience, I always thought my family led sin free lives (I was raised as a mormon), then word gets out that they did stuff just like anyone else. I just feel glad that I'm not the only f**k up. If you really want to set an example for your kids, you should stick to the ones you have, you don't have any control in this situation.

Congratulations on your learning experience! I am convinced you are doing the right thing. In the long run, you are avoiding a lot of hurt for yourself and for her. Maybe she'll straighten her life out and find someone else or maybe she won't, but that isn't your problem.

Interactions such as these have value for bringing one's own understanding forward, even though it couldn't go anywhere because of a problem. I've encountered women who aren't suitable for relationships because of problems, too. It could theoretically be possible for you to maintain some sort of friendship with her, but would that be too disturbing? Would further interaction be only a source of ongoing hurt and disappointment because you had feelings for her? Maybe there really is no going back on these things.