Online dating and why it works for shy guys.

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Only at times when it would seem appropriate in general, such as when saying goodbye to a really good friend (also my gf in my previous relationship)... but it's just not enough. The level of physical contact I need is so intense that it's elevated into the category of intimacy, and thus I need a girlfriend who is willing to do those sorts of things. (At least I'm understanding what's going on with myself, though, and it's making me feel a little bit better about myself)

I've only had one relationship that got far enough to get to that point, and then we only did that once while we were together. It was definitely the best experience in my life. But unless I somehow get another girlfriend (or by some miracle reconnect with my ex, though that's fairly unlikely at this point), I'll never get to experience that again...

If you're online dating IMHO I recommend looking into people who are conservative, or who are from conservative places. That's where I have repeatedly had better results, not from online dating sites per se, but just from chatting online. I have found conservative girls are a lot more loyal and much less likely to treat you as dispensible, as tends to happen online.

That'll work fine if you're also a conservative. But I have a few conservatives among my female friends out there, and there are times I just can't stand to be around them...

Ok Toad, you need to stop focusing on what you can't do, and start focusing on what you can do. As far as I see it, your situation boils down to this...

You are putting yourself in a trap:
putting yourself in situations with no possible solution (e.g. wanting to have a great relationship with a woman before actually getting to know her)

-or-

demanding a perfect answer to a problem that has no perfect answers (e.g. wanting to be able to meet new people outside your church, but your church friends are the only ones you seem comfortable with and those friendships are draining more and more of your time and energy)

Frankly, from the above it's little wonder you're getting frustrated and incessantly posting in Love and Dating about your relationship problems. But the question I have is... what are you doing about it? When are you going to stop making excuses and accept that life is full of tough decisions and "this is my best guess, let's hope for the best" ?

I don't think it's that. In fact, it's quite the opposite: I want to get to know "her", whoever her might be, really well before I engage in anything that's even slightly relationship-oriented.

That seems more applicable to the situation...

Honestly, I tried to step outside my bounds with my previous relationship (I'm 21, my preferred age range is 18-25, and I ended up dating a 17 year old). But I can't just abandon my only social safe haven just because my relationship opportunities are limited. If I leave my church, the place I end up at might be far worse.

So let's say that I find a match. What should my message say?

I don't think you quite understand what will happen if you continue the route you're pursuing now.

All groups come to an end, including your church social life. All it takes is for one new person to enter that group for the whole social dynamic to change, and you will be left wondering where everybody went. You will also be shocked at how quickly all your hard work in trying to maintain this particular social dynamic will unravel. What you don't seem to understand is that you are already on shaky ground. Your church social life is more precarious than you think, and that's why you invest so much time and energy into trying to stabilize it. You are a lot better off making backup plans and alternative arrangements now, while you still have time, than it would be to wait until later when everything is already going to sh*t really fast. In other words, prepare for disasters now before a disaster actually hits.

You're never going to find a perfect solution to the situation you're in, not because there's anything wrong with you, but rather because perfect solutions to this kind of problem don't exist. That's the adult world, making difficult decisions and taking calculated risks. You need to stop making excuses and buckle down and just act. You're thinking way too much about the downsides of every possible scenario imaginable. There are downsides to EVERYTHING! Too much thinking results in second thoughts and inertia, and it's a classic problem that most people face at some point in their lives. Ok, you've done your analyses. Everything you can possibly do has a downside. So what's the best (read: not perfect) choice to make, Toad?

What would I do?

Branch out and develop new social avenues while you still have access to your church social group. That way you can always retreat to the church if you encountered a bad social situation in the new environment. Because Toad... if you're gonna wait until the sh*t hits the fan (the church social group disintegrates), you're going to have to develop new social avenues anyway, but then you won't have your church to retreat to. Then you will truly be stuck with no place to go. No matter what happens, you're going to have to develop new social avenues and skills anyway, so at the very least do it on your own terms while you still have the freedom and flexibility to do it, instead of later when it's essentially "do or die".

Sorry to put it so bluntly, but I thought it was time to nip this in the bud and put things into some perspective, finally.

I had some very positive experiences using ICQ (back when everyone still used ICQ over here) and a networking site similar to Facebook (where you could filter profiles based on region, gender, relational status, sexual preference, music taste and other criteria) to meet some interesting ladies who I would meet after Instant Messaging for a while, which often ended up in a physical relationship. In one case, that relationship even lasted for 6 years.

Dating sites are not my cup of tea, though. I don't trust them and most of them aren't free anyway. In the age of online social networks, there are definitely better ways to look for interesting new people.

Well I'm still on the free dating site and I met a woman in her mid 20s that looks exactly like Roz from Frasier (my dream woman, for those of you who don't know.) Better yet, even after talking to her for an hour and getting her number and finding out that she's a cool person, I'm not hung up on her. While I'd like something to happen, I'm less desperate, and as a result, something is more likely to happen.

Some of you on here might say "I don't want to talk to a few women at once, I want one woman to love." When you don't know a woman, even if she's your physical ideal, it's best to have a few other girls to talk to just in case it doesn't go well. That way you aren't putting her on a pedestal.

Of course, no one will take my advice because "Oh I don't want to do online...what if I get rejected behind a computer...or "it seems too desperate." What's better, sitting at home on a saturday night wishing you had a girlfriend, or talking to a bunch of local and semi-local women and trying to meet someone who won't judge you for your social quirks behind a computer?

I had a bad experience a couple of years back with someone on an internet forum who appeared to reciprocate my interest and was very close to me for a period of a couple of months, but let me down and unexpectedly went for one of the other regulars. I think I'd have too many trust issues for a long-distance relationship after that whole business, and virtually anything established on the internet will be long-distance (I'm in a foreign country).

I won't question that it has worked very well for many people, it just wouldn't work for me. Unless they're very close in which case I'd meet them as soon as possible. I'm willing to revise this stance in case there's an attractive woman who takes an overt interest in me, but this is unlikely. I haven't been all that socially involved with the people on internet forums (private messages, IMs, etc.) for years.

Isn't this basically the same thing as your other thread?

Anyways, I have plenty of opinion to offer on online dating.

It only works for certain people. I've been at online dating for many years now and tried many different sites and approaches to the matter.
The conclusion is that it just doesn't work for someone like me. I play it the way it's set up, but it does no good if the women I send friendly messages to never respond.
And I do send plenty of messages, but certainly not randomly. I pick women who I would like to talk to or seem interesting, or have a common interest and try to build on that, but it mostly never amounts to anything.

it's all about having a good picture up of yourself. the picture is everything. shallow, i know, but i'm sure you're messaging women you find pretty. i've got no messages, then messaged the same women with a new pic and got a totally different outcome.

sorry for being tactless but do aspie guys enjoy being hugged? i'm a female aspie and i dislike being hugged except by close friends. my "guy" does not share this privilege.

^ Is that tactless?

I like being hugged, but not by people without that "privilege". Sometimes it's hard to decide if I should allow it, though.
Currently, there's only one person I really enjoy being hugged by. I also make a point of hugging my elderly grandparents, who have been worrying about death for a number of years.

Personally i love being hugged and all that affectionate stuff. I can't get enough of it. If it weren't for this bloody western culture inevitably tying the concept of any kind of deep affection with someone outside your family to being part of a romantic relationship (or even just a sexual fling), i'd engage in it more often. Family, friends, lovers, it doesn't matter much to me (although it's preferable with a woman i love because the affection just runs that much deeper, and i can get away with it without weirding out the people around me...)

Yeah, I'm abnormal. You're entitled to your own opinion on the matter, but then again, so am i.

I'm using plenty of fish, But i'm never sure what I should write in the first message. Any suggestions?