are there women out there...

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Maybe, but what about your church group?

I'm pretty sure Europe is generally less touchy-feely than over here in the US, at least according to all my European friends.

I have learned not to try to be physically affectionate at the platonic level with any straight men I've known. While you may feel affection is all you want, getting into a situation where a friend who was female began to be physically affectionate and cuddly would very likely start to rouse those feelings of sexual desire very quickly. I speak from experience. One example is when I thought it would be rewarding enough for me to be physically affectionate with my best guy friend -- hugs, massages, cuddles -- because I knew how much he gained from the rushes of social feel-good hormones it gave him. In the end it only frustrated him and made him resent me deep down, unconsciously, because of his own sexual frustrations.

Not long ago I talked with a straight man who told me he was really just craving physical affections in a friendship (and I was an interest in that regard). I questioned him openly as to whether or not he could do it with another man friend with whom he was close, and his answer was a rather emphatic 'no,' that it wouldn't be satisfying. I pointed this out as strong potential evidence that he was unconsciously being driven to fulfill physical sexual desire, otherwise the need would be fulfilled by other close friendships of the same sex. My boyfriend is bi and loves to cuddle with his nearest and dearest of either sex in a platonic fashion, and I'm certainly not opposed to it with women.

I'm not saying the sexual desire is wrong or inherently bad; what I'm suggesting is that anyone be careful to trick themselves into thinking that's all they're going to want from a physically close friendship with the sex of their desiring. If you ask yourself whether it appeals to do it with the sex you're not attracted to sexually, and the answer is a negative, re-assessing your deeper motives will probably prove helpful in future interactions.

Cuddling is a pretty common desire for a lot of people, since the activity releases lots of pleasurable hormones in the brain. There's even a workgroup and website formed around it for that reason. If you really feel like you'd benefit from it, you might do well to talk to the friends you have and describe your predicament.

But can't you see how these are important only if you're not willing to fulfill the sexual frustrations of your male friends? One thing that seems unbelievably hard for most women to get is that for men there is not this huge barrier between just ordinary physical affection and sexual touch, that seems to exist for so many women. And it's not *nearly* as simple as "activities that may get someone pregnant" vs. "activities that can't get someone pregnant". There are ways to exchange sexual touch that are almost, if not exactly, as benign as so-called "platonic" cuddling.

It all comes down to if for you there is a metaphorical sign saying "you are now entering sexual territory", that makes you want to turn back. How me and most of my guy friends seem to see it is, if you're touching yourselves with the goal of making each other feel good, why restrict yourself to not touching the areas you are really curious about touching, and that might feel even better? I'd be willing to bet that most guys who have felt like cuddling with male friends would most likely also be open to doing something sexual with each other, even if it's only "innocently" exploring each other's private areas, and even if they would never admit such a thing out of fear of being labeled gay.

For me, there's a very specific feeling to being sexual, a drive that doesn't happen under most circumstances. The sensations change, the desires change, and only then do the genitals become a part of the equation. I have to be attracted in such an intimate way that the idea of bodily fluid exchange is exciting, rather than almost revolting. Hugging is very intermediate; it requires trust, but nothing like kissing, face-to-face touching, intense eye-gazing, frotting, and genital play does.

Also, consider how anyone cuddles with a child -- if I apply the above logic, a lot of people are going to frown on that. The feelings I get when being physically intimate with friends are very similar to those I get for children and other animals. Just because I'm snuggling up to a dog or a little kid doesn't mean I become aroused, and the same goes for friends. That's platonic, and there is a definite barrier between the two feelings. Children, other animals, and friendships, those are boundary relationships that do not cross the sexual threshold, and to overstep that can have a very negative impact on me and the other individual psychologically. I really don't think it's cultural or even necessarily gender-based, it feels pretty deeply wired.

See, I can't relate to this, except to the intense eye-gazing part, as I don't tend to make eye contact, so that is awkward.



See, but this is just it. In fact, I also don't understand the immense, seemingly deep barrier that many people have toward sexual contact with children either. It's not that I'm attracted to children, there certainly is a blatantly obvious feeling there with adult women that isn't there to a noticeable extent with kids. But what's in the way there is the absence of a feeling, not a negative feeling. And I also have a cognitive understanding that there are important consent issues that arise with partners who are not in a position where they feel as an equal. But I do sometimes have a fear (rational or not) that if I were to cuddle a lot with kids, I might develop sexual feelings toward them. Though that's only if circumstances pressured or even almost required me to cuddle with them, because generally I just don't get the urge to. Now with friends who are adult women, I certainly would feel no barrier to sexual contact with them. And if an adult male friend requested I touch him in that way, it wouldn't really put me off, though except in extremely rare cases I'd never get the idea on my own.

This is a significant part of how having AS feels to me, in comparison to the typical people around me. It's as if there's some insulation that has been shorted through, some non-myelinated nerve fibers or something, such that there's this sense of raw feeling that can kind of bleed from one thing to the other. This relates to a lot more than just sex, mind you. In other areas of the brain, I think this is a great contributor to my ability to see connections between things that others might not, e.g. in science. But the downside is it's hard to fit into some kind of mold. I'm thinking this is along the lines of what Dossa described in another thread about how it seems like a program was not installed or something.

And what if what I seek doesn't necessarily cross said sexual threshold? You just assume that as soon as I get to experience the one thing I've needed for over 10 years now, I'm going to cross the line into sexual contact. Even though I got a chance to cuddle with my gf in my previous relationship, it never went sexual, nor did I have any particular desire for it to go in that direction. I've been barred from seeking affection from my mother for a very long time on account of being too old, and a romantic relationship is the only other thing that is intimate enough to facilitate such closeness...

I found a solution that served me well since year 2005: escorts. I usually go for the high-end ones that cost $300 an hour or higher. (Back when I had a job, at least; I won't be doing that until I start working again.) Those escorts don't just provide you with mechanical sex, they also do girlfriend-type things, like French kissing, cuddling, and extra foreplay. This way, I get both my sex needs and my touch needs met in one session, and walk away with a smile on my face (more like a goofy grin, to be exact).

What girl just wants to cuddle 24/7? Even girls who like cuddling would find that creepy. I think Toad is asking for too much here.

No, not 24/7... like any human being, I need alone time (more than the average human being, actually, given my aspie status), and I wouldn't expect anybody to want to be around me all the time... most people can't even spend 5 minutes around me...

I haven't met a lot of people from the USA, but I get the impression that, on the whole, people from there are more touchy-feely than us Europeans. I think the most reserved out of the Europeans are definitely the British. I have met a lot of people from different parts of Europe and they usually greet people with kisses on the cheeks and when saying goodbye give you a hug and maybe more kisses on cheeks for good measure. I have never really observed British people doing this, although British women do hug each other as a greeting and a goodbye, but that's it. Next to others, we appear to be emotionally 'cold' and reserved.

Don't count out the Dutch howvever. Almost all Dutch girls I've come across are about as approachable as a block of concrete with iron spikes sticking out. I suggest that Toad move to a warmer climate. My aunt and uncle live in the Dutch Antilles (Aruba), and they say the locals are over one another all the time...

Sucks to be me, I guess... I prefer colder climates myself...