Could you be loved?

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I have been turned onto the concept of love-maps lately and this is something I truly believe in, therapy or no. I've seen the evidence of it in my life. I'm not talking about new-agey descriptions but the kinds they refer to on forensic shows. Alice Miller is about the only person I've read who adequately tackles the effect of trauma in childhood on adult life.

In reference to melt-downs I'm embarassed to admit it's only in the time I've been on here, a few months that I've begun to realize that most people don't cope with stress this way. It's mortifying to me the way I react sometimes. But I just have been able to admit this to myself in the last few months, that my reactions can be pretty over the top and innappropriate. I wanted to believe everyone does it. I just have way too much emotion sometimes, and I need to get lost when I do, I should have learned that from AA years ago. Great writing as usual.

That sounds interesting, do you have any links you'd recommend?

@Thom_Fuleri - Can I just say I loved this story? Even though it was difficult for you to write about it, I'm so glad you did. Even though the situation you described was extraordinarily stressful, you managed it. You did exactly the right thing - you called for help when you needed it. That, my friend, is such a great demonstration of coping skills at work in your life. You are responsible for the peaceful resolution to that situation - well done, indeed.

You've also described how chaotic and crisis-filled an environment with an addict can be. As an adult, you were able to take action - you picked up the phone and got help. Kids can't - or won't - typically do that. Even if they believe it's an option, they don't want mommy or daddy to go to jail....who would take care of them? Situations like that do so much damage to little ones - it's horrific.

I'm glad your partner got help, and I'm glad you remain scared of the consequences of giving in to the chaos of that moment. I have a good friend who's a pediatric intensive care nurse, and we were talking about disciplining our kids (neither one of us are spankers). She told me that she often saw parents sitting at the bed-side of a child they'd put in the hospital because they'd lost their shiz - for an instant - and took a real swing at a misbehaving child. I remember her saying that most of the parents in that situation weren't the monsters we all assume they are - they were just people who lost control for a single moment. I'm so glad you didn't do anything in that moment that you'd have to live with for the rest of your life.

Good post! I have to say, though, that 90% of the counselors and therapists that I saw in my life, wasted both my time and theirs. Of course, they were being paid to waste their time. In the past 5 years, the person who was the most influential in my renaissance, was a woman who answered calls at a hot line at a battered womens shelter. She was not trained in professional counseling, nor was she a social worker or psychologist. The most important thing that she did, was listen. She talked me out of 2 suicidal moods, and countless other panic and anxiety attacks. She often assured me that I would eventually figure out how to manage the current problem, because as I talked to her, I calmed down and basically talked myself out of whatever was bothering me. To have someone listen to me monologue, without looking at their watch, or suggesting medicine, was priceless. It helped, too, that she had been raised by a mother with very similar issues to my own parent. So, she had been there, done that.

Other counselors spent a lot of time either trying to get me to accept wrong diagnoses, or doubting that I had Asperger's.

Last edited by hartzofspace on 09 Mar 2010, 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

@jawbrodt - Look, first of all, you're only half evil....which I suspect indicates up to a 50% reduction in your personal evil quotient. That's a step in the right direction, dude.

Really, I don't think you should wait until you're "perfect" to be in a relationship. I cannot recommend strongly enough however, the impact of communication on smoothing over our imperfections. As long as you're committed to keeping communication open, even when it's difficult, awkward, embarrassing, icky, etc., you'll have a much better chance at succeeding. Sometimes it can be as simple as saying, "I don't know what to do here," or "Help me understand what you need," or "I know you're upset, but I don't understand how we got here," - making the effort means so much. It can be absolutely endearing. Seriously, genuine emotional vulnerability in a man is hot. You will not only solve the problem and learn how to avoid it next time, you will get laid. So don't wait - choose a nice woman who's interested in making the same kind of journey, and start moving forward.

@Tech - I haven't seen you around much lately.....whatcha been doin' - hybernatin?

Thanks for the compliment. So about your high standards for that special gal - I don't see anything wrong with having standards. I guess how "foolish" they are depends....I can see sharing the same political and moral perspectives to be an important standard, whereas "left handed" might be kind of a goofy standard to have. (Full disclosure: I am a southpaw, so no southpaw haters in this thread, please. )

I guess standards only becomes a problem if you use them to avoid relationships and end up isolating yourself (not saying you're doing that, just bringing it up). Also, I really like your reference to "higher functioning NTs" - so, so true - NTs function at all different levels, don't they? Definite cool points for that.

@Sound - A man who thinks my hu-normous intellect is hot?! Sir, you just made my evening. I always enjoy your posts, as well, and I do appreciate the compliment. Seriously - evening made.

@Alana - Yes! I remember Alice Miller - she's great. Also, I'd be interested in the love-maps link, too - if you have one.

Aspies don't exactly have a monopoly on meltdowns. It's got so much to do with handling stress better - and that's something most of us are lousy at. But I believe improvements are always possible. Please don't waste your time being mortified - how you handled things in the past is over - you'll do better now that you know better. And since you mentioned AA, I'm gonna throw a "progress, not perfection" at you, just for good measure. Writing, meditation, exertion, chanting....they can all be alternatives to a meltdown. Thanks for the feedback - it's very much appreciated.

@hartzofspace - Thanks. I wish more therapists were more like that woman at the hotline - good listeners who offer a bit of practical reassurance. I have to say that the therapist who helped me the most was very much like that. She didn't waste a lot of time with diagnoses (although she gave me one), she just kept me focused on what I wanted to achieve, and pushed me to do some things that I needed to do - but needed encouragement to face. She also provided a much needed perspective on what a functional life with functional relationships is like. In many ways, what she taught me about life actually provided the parenting I didn't get as a child.

Same. I was the daughter to a single mother who drank for over a decade (started when I was four). Her drinking coincided with her emotional/physical abuser fiance moving in with us, as well... I've been spending an enormous amount of time reading about Adult Children of Alcoholics (though in Canada, we have few groups available), as well as abuse in multiple forms. Since I had my son with my ex, also an emotionally abusive partner (as you said Hope, it's sad, but true... we grow up to seek them out), I have poured even more effort into bettering myself as an adult. Taking responsibility for how I perceive the world, after growing up in an environment that was controlled by unhealthy, hardly-qualified-to-be-good-role-model individuals.

I still have a fair amount of work to do, as I believe most people, whether with a dysfunctional history or not can always benefit from personal advancement, but am also fortunate enough to be involved with someone who is patient with me. Obviously, it would have been ideal if I could have laid to rest the majority of my "issues" before we had met, but he understands that unlike many others out there, I DO hold accountability and take responsibility for my emotional burdens, and that I am ACTIVELY working to change the negative impacts they have on my life and overall quality of life.

So instead of believing that people should "do the work [they] need to do so they're ready for love when they find it," I would implore everyone to try to regularly assess whatever roadblocks they may have in their worlds/histories/psyches, and maintain that awareness within their relationships. Further still, be honest with your partners as to what you know you need to work on... For if you are with someone to whom you cannot divulge your indiscretions, how is it ever supposed to last? And as Descartes said, "Believe it or not, sometimes if you find the right person, they actually help you."

@Side-Kick - Excellent, excellent advice. And I totally support your approach. I didn't mean to imply that people shouldn't have relationships until they've worked all their problems out, but I realize that's the way it came across. When I wrote about being ready for love, I was thinking about people who are not currently in relationships, but want very much to be in one. But, die-hard romantic that I am, I believe that if two people are equally committed to working through their issues together, and have the appropriate resources to help them do that, there's actually very little that can't be resolved within a relationship. That combination (two committed people, adequate resources) is unfortunately, pretty hard to find. I've never been able to have that all at the same time, so I'm very glad that you have that now. Good luck.

First of all...I'll always be half evil.lol But, you're guess is pretty accurate as to where I am, progress-wise, with relationships. Since discovering AS,(3 years ago) I've made huge amounts of progress in the right direction, and basically, I was hopeless before that. So, that's cool. Social anxiety/panic disorder is the main culprit, with me, and forced me out of considering dating, my whole life.(long story.lol) Anyway..."perfection" is now a big problem, not that I'm waiting for myself to get there, but expecting perfection once I do find a gf. My aspie side has trouble not being able to know exactly how things are supposed to be, and then I burn myself out trying to be perfect. I have to learn to find a happy medium, I guess? What really bothers me, is that the girls I've dated have all been awesome(and I'm pretty sure they thought the same of me ), but then they end up being 'practice girls'(a terrible term, I know) because I eventually freak out and blow it. I'm pretty good with the other stuff though, and have yet to meet someone who is willing to blurt out embarrassingly personal stuff like I do.(if I had a disgustingly hairy ass, they'd know about it very early ) I figure it's better to put all my crappy traits out in the open, early, rather than spending a bunch of time with something that isn't going to work, if they aren't going to accept them. That's why I openly post on the forums about my past heroin addiction, alcoholism, prison visits, etc.....LOL And...I have yet to get laid because of it.LOL

Am I able to be loved? Yes. Am I able to be tied to a ball and chain? No, not yet I have some stuff to work on, but I still hate to think that I'm going to end up with another "practice girl", due to my own problems. Hmm.....

Excellent post, by the way.

Not in my experience. In my relationship, I kept the lines open as long as I could. I was calm and accepting of her as she went on about some other guy she kissed (although she later admitted to making that up in an attempt to make me break up with her), all because I really wanted this to work. If most of communication is listening, I was prepared to lend an ear to anything and not be judgmental about it, and more importantly, i was willing to work with her on anything that needed work, whether myself, her, some combination thereof, or just to fix up misunderstandings. Still didn't save the relationship. To be completely fair, yes it did save a friendship with her, and she has said that she might be open to trying again in the future when we're both a little more mature, but not anytime soon. I'm not holding my breath, but the fact remains that she was the only woman who was willing to see past the dull ugly exterior to try and find anything of value in my life. Such women are hard to come by, and I doubt i'll ever be able to meet another woman like her.

& @ hopegrows


the last time I looked for links on this I couldn't find anything but new-agey stuff, what I got intrigued by was mentioned first by Reid (the best aspie/hfa in the world) on criminal minds...its about how a person learns to give and receive love, which is supposedly cemented by the time you are six years old. so if you have trauma at the hands of someone you love then love and pain become merged in some people. extreme examples are predators and serial killers. domestic violence is another example. alot of people that end up in maximum security prisons for the worst crimes have skewed love maps and some people beleive it is impossible to cure. it's probably a factor in the attraction to bdsm (which in my mind is a healthier expression than domestic violence because at least the attraction is in the conscious rather than subconscious mind). that's about all i've been able to gather on it it. I believe it's real though. Alice Miller believes there is a way out of skewed love maps and if it wasn't for her work I would think it was hopeless but she really does shine a light in the darkness. I think anyone having trouble with dysfunctional relationships should read her work (really I believe every human being on the face of the earth should have to read "For Your Own Good" and "Thou Shalt Not Be Aware" but that's just me.)

I would like to Al-Anon. I just wonder if they would not like it if one of their ranks wasn't a complete teetotaler. I drink beer, so far without any problems. I was also lucky to have a good set of grandparents that kind of became my parents de facto.

I think it's important to find friends and partners who are very compassionate towards you because sometimes you just have to lean on someone and vice-versa. I think it might help if they too have gone through some kind of trauma. My wife came from a very normal family compared to mine, in spite of the fact that her parents came from dysfunctional families themselves. Yet, my wife suffered through terrible depression and substance abuse when she was a teenager. As far as healing, it takes a lifetime. A big problem with our parents was that they never surrendered themselves to help.

Something else that has helped me is the writings of Hubert Selby Jr., such as Last Exit to Brooklyn, Requiem for a Dream, and The Song of Silent Snow. Selby suffered through intense physical pain and substance abuse. He began writing because he pictured himself dying and then regretting his life. In his writings he treats the suffering of people from the ghetto and middle class with equal compassion. He was a big advocate of compassion as a solution.