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Okay... So why exactly do you need advice?

If you don't need women why don't you just say "f**k those b*****s" and not ask us if you still have a chance with some chick who moved away. If you're happy with alcohol and running around naked in the forest then why did you start this thread?

f**k those b*****s. Go get wasted and wake up in a bed of leaves snuggled up next to a lonely female bear. Or are you being completely honest with yourself when you say that there are no women that are of use to you?

Toadofsteel: I bow to your ability to lay it out there without getting so mad you're practically spitting nails at your monitor. I need to work on that.

A modern-day Freud walks among us *applauds*

Maybe you should make a thread offering your services as a dream interpreter.
Kind of joking, but at the same time, doesn't sound like too bad of an idea for a thread .

Toad, that was a very thoughtful dream interpretation. Thoghtful dream interpretation goes on the list of positive things.

What makes us a**holes? Our total disappointment in humanity as a species? If you try to be kind, helpful and honest but end up being screwed most of the time (and almost every time when you open you heart to a woman) it's pretty hard not to feel as bitter as Dirk does. I try to survive by giving people the benefit of the doubt, but it isn't always easy to put any faith in humanity when your loyalty is betrayed yet again and you see mainstream society degenerate further and further into the Kali Yuga (Indian philosophical concept that can be translated as "the Dark Age").



If you cannot have a decent conversation with people and you cannot do any shared activities, then what's the point of spending any time with them at all? "No use" to you seems to imply abuse of some kind, but in my perspective it merely refers to serving a purpose. Friendship for the sake of friendship is silly. The ideal friendship is a perfect symbiosis.

A Scandinavian black metal artist once wrote the following words about meeting people and I couldn't agree more on this :
"People are like books, and the world is like a library. Some believe that it is important to be known with the most possible people, and have what we call superficial relationships with mass amounts of people. If you go in a library it's not important to see the cover of the most possible books, what you will learn if to get out a pair of interesting books and take a good amount of time to read them. Those who want to know the most possible only see the cover of many books, maybe they get as far as a few pages through the books, but they never get to read some of them. So there is actually no point in finding the books in the 1st place."



When I look at myself and my circle of intimate friends, I don't know any guy who thinks that way about women. Personally, I'm mostly attracted to a woman with a bit of joy-de-vivre (you might not believe it, but in spite of my negative worldview I usually tend to be quite optimistic and joyful), an open mind, a direct and clear communication style and the capacity of deep intellectual discussion. I couldn't care less about breast size actually, even though I enjoy the beauty of the female body no less than any other man.

Obviously shallow men exist. In fact, I'd say the majority of people tend to be quite shallow and hypocritical, regardless of gender. I just find it far easier to find men who are an exception than women and several of my friends have the same problem.... especially among intellectuals.

Maybe we're just looking in the wrong direction? That's definitely a possibility I'm not excluding, but thusfar I am not aware of any circles where I would be able to find such feminine exceptions.



I'm also stating that most men are hypocritical and shallow a**holes. Does that make me a manhater? Really, what is it with so many women that they fail to think logically and always jump to (the wrong) conclusions?!?



Actually, I don't care what she'd think about other Aspies. If she likes me for who I am and what I am, so what if she considers me the exception?

By the way, I recently met a woman online who does fit many of the characteristics I look for in a woman and she's already shown some interest in me as well. We'll have a first date next Friday and I really hope that she might be one of those exceptions I have so much difficulty finding.



It's easy to become bitter and hopelessly misanthropic in a messed up world like the one we live in. The words spoken in the first thread are the words of a young man who's gone though hell and back and came out totally broken, having lost each and every last bit of respect for humanity. If you consider him an a**hole because of that, that says more about yourself than about him.

I direct the anger inwards... that's how I handle it.

Besides, what message would I be sending to the good people here if I got angry at others? I keep asking people that they don't get angry with me despite all the s**t I pull...


Oh shut up. Ze dream intepretation iz not ze ezact scienz nao iz it?

Besides, it only works on dreams that have definitive emotions and a "plot" of sorts. Most of my dreams are just random sequences stuck together with no coherent plot whatsoever.

Why do people who are disappointed with the world always feel so singled out? The world...humanity...lets EVERYONE down. Yes, I do think it makes people a**holes if that makes them bitter and lash out and treat other people like dirt. Lots of people get knocked down by life over and over again and dust themselves off and don't set up housekeeping in despair.



My interpretation of his "use" of people comes from his other posts, not just this one. And you might have noticed that the idea of having a decent conversation or doing shared activities is moot, because he stated up front that he doesn't even talk to women. So to use your black metal analogy, he's not only declaring that all the books suck just by looking at the cover - he's refusing to even set foot in the library.



To be perfectly honest, I don't actually see what this has to do with this conversation. Who said anything about thinking it's important to have tons of superficial relationships?



OK, I get it, I get it. You're an intellectual. And you know what, high IQ dating is a problem in it's own right. It's not hard just for men. Women with a lot between their ears often get the message growing up that it's unseemly, unfeminine, to be too smart. By the time we're ready to date, unless we're ferociously stubborn, a lot of us have absorbed the message that if we want to fit in, be desireable, we'd better dumb down.



...and there you go again. And if you're also saying that most men are hypocritical and shallow a**holes (a view which was decidedly absent from your initial post), then yes, I do think that makes you a man-hater too. Although I suppose if you're an equal opportunity humanity hater, then at least you're fair.



Hmmm...I actually think this might be an Aspie/NT divide line or maybe a male/female divide. My husband said he wouldn't care either. To me, if you bash a group of which I am a subset, you're bashing me, whether you singled me out for the insult or not. I dated a man once who talked like this "Women suck...shallow stuck up b*****s...but not you, you're not like other women." And so I was cut off from my own kind. In my own sense of identity, I had to make a choice between "being a woman" or being "not like that." I don't know if he thought it was a compliment or if he was really trying to just isolate me so I'd be easier to control ('cause that's the kind of person he was), but the end effect was that it made me feel like a space alien who didn't belong anywhere.



Good for you. Best of luck with that. I'd suggest you keep your feelings about women in general to yourself (unless of course, you want to try a fun experiment).



It's easy to become bitter if you're lazy and narcissistic. "Oh the world failed ME!!" Newsflash, the world never owed you anything. The words spoken in the first thread are spoken by a 21-year-old who had a bad dream and then decided that pseudointellectual, flowery whining about it and a declared hatred of women in general was the appropriate response. And yes, I consider him an a**hole for that. In my worldview, everyone has an obligation to make the best of the hand they're dealt, and if they don't, well, they make their own beds.

I don't treat other people like dirt. In fact, I try to treat everyone the same way I would like to be treated by them. I just find it hard to actually like or trust most people.



I am currently dusting myself off and on my way to a new start. Nevertheless, even if I ever get again where I used to be (decent income, busy social life, cohabitating girlfriend) I doubt it will ever restore my faith in humanity as a species. There's far more to my mysanthropy than just my personal experiences.



If you've been thrown out of the library a bit too often, it's only logical you hesitate to set foot in one again. I can only encourage him not to give up, but I understand his reluctancy to associate himself with other people.



My point was that a friendship that doesn't have a purpose (as in beneficial to either side) is moot. The deeper the friendship, the more valuable it becomes to both sides and the more relevant it therefor gets.



For someone supposed to be intelligent, that's a pretty stupid and cowardly choice to make.



Hate is a strong word. Disgust, pity and annoyance sum it up more precisely.



If you are considered an exception, you're no longer a subset of the group to which a reference is made. I think you somehow have more trouble realising this than your husband and I, possibly because your emotional preprocessing alters your perception. This emotional preprocessing tends to be more intense among women than among men and almost entirely absent among Aspies.



Maybe you should avoid identifying yourself as part of a group and instead find an individual identity to rely on and be proud of. As a male Aspie with the most varied and often controversial ideas there is not a single group I am not an outsider in (even among Aspies I am fairly unusual). I learnt to accept that and found a way to establish my own identity not based on whatever groups I belong to but based on what I think, do and feel like.



Thanks. I already did rant a bit to her about women online, but she didn't seem to mind. But yeah, I should avoid that kind of topic



I seriously doubt that's the only reason he became so bitter. Certainly it's not a solution to allow that bitterness to eat your heart out and take away the last bit of joy still left inside of you, but maybe he'll eventually figure that out. When I was 17, I was so bitter I would have been able to start my own Columbine shoot-out if I had had access to firearms, but now I try to enjoy myself and get back on my feet in spite all the s**t I've been through for the last year or so (the most antisocial upstairs neighbors, losing 2 different jobs, losing 2 different girlfriends, seeing my social life fade away, trying to survive on my own without being able to cook or iron, ...)



Sure.... But we're all human and the younger you are the harder it is to cope with all the s**t being thrown at you. Sure, it may be at least partly his fault. Sure, him avoiding human contact is not going to help anyone. Sure, he may be focusing on the wrong priorities... But it takes time to get through such a period and you can't really blame him for being bitter. Are you telling me you never went through a phase in your life when you thought there was no hope left for you as in individual or the pathetic wretched species called humanity?

A reminder, but this is the Love & Dating forum - not the Adult Issues forum. Please clean up the language.


M.

It might be useful if you actually pointed out who you're talking to and what language you consider inappropriate because I definitely don't have a clue what you're talking about.

Let us just pretend we are all guilty of some wrongdoing on this site and respect his wishes to correct it now so in the future it does not reoccur.

You did use the S word so I'm not exactly being disingenuous either.

The S word? I really don't get the problem with saying s*** of f*** (self-censored). It's not like your average 10-year-old is unfamiliar with those words. Americans have such weird standards....

Clean up the language? I find that suggestion soiled, unclean, bedraggled, begrimed, black, contaminated, cruddy, crummy, defiled, disarrayed, dishabille, disheveled, dreggy, dungy, dusty, filthy, foul, greasy, grimy, grubby, grungy, icky, lousy, messy, mucky, muddy, mung, murky, nasty, a polluted pigpen, raunchy, scummy, scuzzy, slatternly, slimy, sloppy, slovenly, smudged, smutty, sooty, spattered, spotted, squalid, stained, straggly, sullied, unhygienic, unkempt, unlaundered, unsanitary, unsightly, unswept, untidy, unwashed, yucky, base, blue, coarse, contemptible, despicable, immoral, impure, indecent, lewd, low, mean, off-color, ribald, risqué, salacious, scatological, scurvy, sordid, unchaste, unclean, vile, vulgar, below the belt, cheating, corrupt, crooked, deceitful, double-dealing, shabby, shady, shifty, sleazy, sneaky, underhanded, unethical, unscrupulous, untruthful, blotched, blurred, botched, decayed, debased, draggled, excrement encrusted, dirty, moldy, muddy, polluted, rotten, besmirched, tainted, tarnished, decrepit, dilapidated, bedraggled, dowdy, abject, tawdry, pitiable, shabby, naughty, obscene, and impure.

*washes own mouth out with soap*

Cowardly...maybe. Lord knows it was never my preference. Stupid? Not on your life. It's a survival tactic, and it runs so deep, I'd be willing to bet a lot of women don't even consciously realize they do it. Loneliness is a HUGE motivator, and women start getting the message pretty early on that if they don't want to be alone, they better learn to keep their traps shut. Even in this day and age, women pay the price if they are too smart, too aggressive, too strong. Going through school, the men who regarded me as an intellectual equal, even the ones who were perfectly friendly and respectful, de-feminized me. Like they could handle female mental equality only if they completely desexualize her. It wasn't that I was pining for any of them in particular, but I would be aware of this sexually-charged, flirtatious manner they had when talking to other girls that would completely disappear if they were talking to me (and trust me, it ain't because of how I look)



Yes, I am telling you I never went through that phase. I've had my share of heartbreak...everyone does. But I never wanted to throw in the towel, in any sense of the phrase. I don't believe I've ever felt really hopeless in my life. I'm no bodhisattva and god knows that compassion fails me WAY more often than I'd like, but I never gave up on humanity.

True true. In my experience those dreams are kind of rare too. I think i've only had one dream that i can even remember that struck me as definitively interpretive which was years ago. & i was able to figure out it's meaning off the get go & basically all it told me was that i was lonely & single & not happy about it.

In the dream i was in my elementary school's auditorium/gymnasium & i looked around me and noticed that somehow the place contained everyone i'd ever known in life despite the building's size and that realistically, it could not possibly hold that many people. & as i watched, everyone suddenly broke up into couples and started running in one direction without me even as the walls fell away to a vast white expanse of nothingness. & i ran after them, trying to catch up & conscious that i had no partner, no other running besides me and was alone & that no matter how fast i ran, all the others seemed to get farther and farther away from me until after a while i could no longer see anyone anymore and found myself alone in a desolate wasteland of nothingness, a world so lonely and devoid of color as to be maddening.
and then i woke up distinctly depressed.

Then why is it that all intelligent men I know personally feel a strong desire for an equally intelligent woman who likes to have in depth conversations with them? In fact, there is little I find more attractive than a woman who can easily beat me in real life discussion on topics like politics of philosophy.

The only reason why I can imagine anyone would dumb themselves down, is to attract unintelligent or at least shallow men and in my opinion that's pretty damn stupid itself.



WTF?!?



I guess you just met the wrong men...



Lucky you