you do not have to change who you are in order to get girls

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Those special circumstances increased my average, no doubt about that. But they didn't come into play in every instance, and I've only been on maybe three or four conventional 'dates' in my life.

It was the only venue in life in which I ever found being a nice guy worked in my favor.




Besides...expecting dinner as a prerequisite for intimacy...isn't that....I mean...

You sure a fifty on the dresser after wouldn't be pretty much the same thing?

@Willard, I talked about dinner because that's the example @DavidM mentioned: "A girl wants me to speak a thousand words in her ear and buy her dinner in a nice place. This I can do, I have no problem with it. But if I must perform these rituals BEFORE she will let me hold her, or even just cuddle her for a bit, then sorry, no can do ... I am starving for your warmth and your love, and every minute that you hold it back from me I become more and more distant,"

So, following up on his example was not my attempt to reduce physical intimacy to a financial transaction. But yeah, typically you're going to need to "speak a thousand words in her ear," a.k.a., court her; or engage in a slightly shorter version of courting, a.k.a., date her (which will probably include buying her a meal or two). Of course, that doesn't take into account the role of alcohol in the process.

But I agree with @Sound: you have to learn to crawl before you walk. Because Aspies have varying degrees of social skill, attractiveness, etc., I don't think the approach that works for someone with your experience and skill will necessarily work someone who is very inexperienced, with different levels of skill.

I'm not impressed. The OP is hooking up with party girls that have no respect for themselves. I'm friends with women who used to do the party scene, and whether people like the OP want to admit it or not, the women are still calling the shots. They're *choosing* to slut themselves around, and moreover, while the OP thinks he's the man for bedding these women, they're with another guy the next day (or that same day.)

I also resent his "I'm 'pulling' women" mindset. He reaks of the PUA community, and most of us despite not getting a lot of women on here actually respect them.

Sounds a bit like his last thread:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postx112816-0-0.html

To be fair he's talking about "getting" girls, not being in a relationship with them.

lek

in animal behaviour, communal area in which two or more males of a species perform courtship displays. Lek behavior, also called arena behavior, is found in a number of insects, birds, and mammals. Varying degrees of interaction occur between the males, from virtually none to closely cooperative dancing. Females visit the lek briefly to select mates and to copulate, but they do not form lasting pair bonds with the males

yea what she said.

...aaannd halt.
This is just flat out wrong. I've spent much of the past decade around these so-called party-girls, women who get dressed up hot, go out to a club and have a good time. Just as much as anyone else, they want a quality, long-term relationship like anyone else. Many of them simply realize they are not in a hurry to get into one(much like men). They know they can command the attention of attractive, strong, independent, successful men, so they're in precisely the right place to find many of them. They might hook up with one of them for fun, on a rare occasion(much like men), but even then they're screening them, looking for one who makes them melt. Is there a reason these so-called party-girls shouldn't do that?

...Or is the problem that sex is sacred? That their cookie is a gift to withhold, lest they be a lesser form of creature, some degenerate version of a woman? Does their willingness to have sex with men they're interested in make them damaged goods? Does sex represent some sort of slippery-slope, where the more you do it, the more likely you are to fall into moral decay?


...Wow. Alright then, Senator McCarthy, tell us the full depth of depravity of these promiscuous rat-people.

But even if they were that promiscuous(which they're generally not), so what?
What reason do you have to resent them? What is the basis of your judgment?

Moreover, his claim is still a barometer of his success in getting dates. A date with a very attractive woman does represent the guy's momentary social performance compared with other socially successful men. Those women are competed over, at least in a few environments like a party, bar or club, or even just walking down the street, as a statement of fact. This PROFOUNDLY affects the woman's filter, who she pursues or flirts with.
His boast is very much not irrelevant.


He's already stated, at some point, that he got started on his social turn-around utilizing some PU knowledge. And now, in this very thread, he suggests being wary of some of the PU knowledge that's bad, such as the stuff that would have you pretend to be someone else, the manipulative stuff.
What exactly is wrong with this? Most of what I end up talking about is found quite commonly within PU ideas (usually inner-game stuff). You didn't seem to see much wrong with those ideas. My background is similar to his, and I don't seem to be a disrespectful misogynist, do I? A lot of guys gain benefit from that community, and it doesn't necessarily turn them into manipulative, chauvinist bastards.

Heck, for a lot of guys, it improves how they would be as a husband, by giving them a sense of perspective, and helping to remove their hidden bitterness with women. Not all men, but many.

In the end, the content of his post is this: Work to get over your fear of rejection, and don't be afraid to touch them. Those things make all the difference in the world. And he's 100% right.

I really don't see any logical reason to dump on him. He's trying to give encouragement, and hasn't shown himself to be a bad person.

Last edited by Sound on 20 Apr 2010, 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Thats a generalisation. Many ARE. You will probably find most people who go for random hookups are promiscuous, to varying extents, mildly to very. Otherwise they would just find someone to have a FB relationship (which essentually is just sex) with and stick with that person. (If they don't want a loving and proper relationship).

Why does it matter? I'll tell you why. Its these people who ruin it for the rest of us. If you don't already know why, think about it. Theres more than one reason.

Personally I don't think slu*ty men and women deserve any respect in that regard.

Alright, I've thought about it, and I'm not quite convinced that they detriment the rest of us in a significant way. Since your comment was brief, maybe you can elaborate further?

Even if promiscuous people did become more chaste, it wouldn't help anyone who isn't getting hook-ups already. Among the people they've had sex with is probably an individual that they'd settle for, if they had to parse it down to one person. Either way, if it wasn't you before, it wont be you now.

Not only that, this supposed group of sex-crazy bohemians isn't so large as you seem to indicate. You're correct that I'm generalizing, but I feel we are over-inflating how many of these truly promiscuous people there are. I've spent countless weekends over the past ten years out at parties and clubs and bars with these men and women, and scant few of them aren't receptive to a long-term relationship, if they find the right person. Most of them only appear to be slu*ty, but actually aren't. Usually they're simply picky, or fickle, because according to the variety of people who pursue them, they believe that they can afford to be.

wow bopp i took that kinda personal

Sound, the OP said himself, you don't need to be great looking or have a non-aspie personality to have sex with these women. It takes no talent whatsoever. Just being in the right place and taking advantage of willing participants.

wounded prey doesn't make you a hunter.

@Sound, did you just refer to a woman's vajayjay as a "cookie?" Again dude, you are too funny.

@Hale_Bopp, I'm kinda stuck here. I'm not sure why you think people who are casual sex enthusiasts "ruin it for the rest of us." Full disclosure: I'm not a big fan of casual sex....it doesn't really work for me. I need emotional involvement - but that's just me.

So if we put the health consequences aside (let's assume everybody is safe, no viruses are exchanged, no unplanned babies are made), I don't care if other people engage in casual sex. Do you think the hook-up community has a negative impact on people who don't because it limits the number of people who might be in the non-hook-up community otherwise? I guess it could limit the sheer number of people in the non-hook-up community, but what's the real alternative? There are guys out there who really only want to get laid. They don't want love, an emotional connection, etc. They just wanna hit it and quit it. If there weren't women available who want the same thing, the H&Q guys would be on the prowl, looking for sex from whomever they could get it.

Sooooo....and H&Q guy is going to cross my path and he's good looking and smart and funny and horny, and he lies his ass off to get me to believe he really cares about me. I give it up, and he's out the door before I have a chance to holler, "stop!" He got laid, my heart's broken, and he's off to break his next heart. That's a very unhappy scenario for me. But if there are H&Q gals out there, then the H&Q guys can get what they want/need from women with similar wants/needs, and I'm less likely to get played. That seems like more of a benefit to me.

I get the H&Q lifestyle is not you choice - it's not mine either. But I don't understand why people who live that lifestyle don't deserve respect (as long as they respect themselves and their partner, in terms of disease and pregnancy prevention). I wouldn't want to live in my parents' era, where all the "good" girls waited til marriage, and the "good" men didn't (but they only married "good" girls). I wouldn't want some guy to marry me just to get laid cause he'll realize that after a while, sex isn't enough to keep a marriage happy and thriving. Did I miss your point? Could you explain a bit more where you're coming from? Thanks.

The >XX Year Old Virgin thread does not jive with this claim, to my mind.
Certainly many people want more than just sex. But a lot of people would definitely be okay(at least for now) with just sex. And given the amount of single people on this board, as an example, portraying sex as that easily attainable(without a monetary transaction) just does not match up.
Heck, given my taste for dance music and it's culture, and my background, I'd have thought that by this point I'd have run into one such situation. But I sure as heck haven't. I always ended up getting there the hard way!

Dance music & drugs = lots of sex with women