Non-sexism mindset in guys is not an add value (sadly).

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Have a nice day!

But if women on the contrary actually seem to disrespect it with their actions its far more than just an issue of sex - its how you're treated and respected as a friend, as a coworker, it also brings into question whether the battle their fighting against sexism is even real or if they're having one played over on them.

On another note, with the urge to get a partner - its way more than sex, that's the part where society says you're supposed to pretend its everything (otherwise your weak), guys and girls though have an aching need to have someone intimately involved in their life who really cares about them, has their back in life and vice a verse, its more of a strong materialist/atheistic concept to infer that there's absolutely nothing else to it aside from chemicals and creative fiction. That said though - people generally only have seventy or eighty years to live. They only have maybe thirty or forty to get somewhere with relationships, otherwise any possibility of 'happily ever after' is blown to pieces for the most part. That IS a big deal and when you're doing something that seems to net a negative with the opposite sex it should ring alarm bells - especially when its a fight you're invested in on their behalf.

Chantico here. Got my old profile back, so reverting back to using this one.

Again, I did apologise for misunderstanding but you seem to enjoy being rude regardless, so, well, that says a lot about you, to be honest.



Yes.. I missed that. I did admit that. It was one line within a long, rambling and gramatically erratic post. If there is something in particular you want people to pick up on, I suggest making it clear at the outset and perhaps even utilising the 'bold' option or 'italics'. Otherwise please do not be rude when people don't immediately grasp your point.

My point was that it doesn't matter if equality gets you girls or not. It's an ideological stance, not a pick up line. It would be like going up to a black person in a bar and going "I am sooo against racism....".

Lene



Techstepgener8tion (that spelled right? sorry ), I understand your point, but the women who actually want to be treated as second cless citizens are minority. I think that Ideology is quite different from attraction; people are attracted to people regardless of many things. That's why you get 'scandals' from mixed race, mixed religion marriages etc (though obviously, these can be the things that attracted the person in the first place)... all these things can play second fiddle to initial attraction. You do get examples of mixed feminist-chauvinist marriages too, I'm sure. That doesn't mean the woman initially set out going "hmmm, what a complete chauvinist.. I bet he sees me as a peice of meat.... that's soo sexy", it means that he initially had other attractive qualities and the woman decided to put up with the sexism. Some people can do that. Others can't. Some people aren't attractive enough in the first place to get away with attitudes like this.

My argument is that if you will throw away a stance just because you think it won't attract certain women to you, then you are not being true to yourself. Or else the whole purpose for the stance was simply to attract women in the first place.

Sexism is real. If you believe otherwise despite substantial evidence on the web and real life, then I'm wasting my time trying to convice you otherwise. You could write a book on why some groups of women 'disrespect' themselves; in fact, people have (e.g. Living Dolls, by Natasha Walker).

I think we're still talking about different things though. I'm not talking about guys getting walked on for not showing sexist behavior, its for throwing their virility out the window. The culture is confusing and a lot of guys who've been inundated by it growing up often enough don't know where the line is drawn between sexism vs. healthy male behavior (and a lot of guys who are successful with women - even successful with the majority who as you said aren't wanting to be treated like second class citizens - subscribe to a lot of methods that would seem very counter-intuitive to that message). This problem I don't think occurs with guys who just happen to not show sexist behavior (or at least on *most* people's definiton of sexism) but rather its the guy's who seem to be actively thinking about it on a regular basis, talking about it, and showing it more than the average guy. If a guy ends up doing that he's taken it a few steps too far. Human nature is filled with caveats, big ones, and my biggest problem with political correctness (most people's I would figure) is that it attempts to ban all conversation even where things really need definition.

I could be wrong, that may not be what Boo was getting at, but a lot of things in his story made me think that he did make that mistake and culturally over-feminize himself.

...wait...what.....?

**checking **


Phew, it's still there.


Kidding, I got what you mean. Maybe you have a point there.

Ok, male-female polarity. One of my favourite subjects.

First of all, OP, props to you for being brave enough to open a can of worms. there's lots of misunderstandings around this.

Here's my 2 cents.

I've lived in countries with extreme equality (East Germany, Sweden) and extreme polarity (Nigeria). Now I'm in the UK which is somewhere in-between.

As much as we girls talk about how we want equality, I tend to agree with the OP. There are deeper instincts that drive us towards the blokey blokes who are able to take control, look after us, and protect us from danger. Equality works fine, until we're sitting at home taking care of a baby (something I've had to experience). There is no real equality, and on some old animal level we know that.

There are different kinds of people, both male and female. Some are more guided by heir intelligence, some just go with their animal instincts. Sometimes, the people who just go with the flow just instinctively pick the right partner, and us, the more cerebral people, who think it's all about equality and who don't get anywhere with it, wonder what happened.

We do get attracted to the manly men, even though we might consciously abhor them. Then we have lots of inner conflict and sometimes have destructive relationships while everyone around us looks at us saying but she's so intelligent, she should be happy!

What am I saying? I don't know. I have no idea how to solve this either.

yummy, look delicious.


Anyways, thank you for being so honest. In fact, you're making sense.

Evolutionary psychology is one my interests, and I understand what you mean.

However, I don't think there's a correlation between 'appearing masculine' and 'being sexist'. What I mean, that a non-masculine guy won't appear more masculine if he behaves in a sexist way, and the masculine guy won't appear less masculine if he show sexist behavior.

I admit that I am not a typically 'masucline-looking' , I am quite short (5'3), thin (55kg) and my jaws and shoulders aren't that wide. But that doesn't mean that girls found me more masculine when I was a bit religious and sexist.

Oooh so many points.

1. Re. height: try dancing. And I don't mean doing the funky chicken, but ballroom dancing, guiding a lady around the dance floor, you know how it used to be an integral part of culture? The man takes charge and the woman gets to be relaxed and beautiful?

Some of the best dance partners I've had were tiny, and I'm 5'9 (175cm). Learn how to dance. It's such a nice way of feeling your way around the polarities without the need to be an arse, and to build your confidence, I can only recommend it to anyone.

2. Hormones! We are not equal! A man needs to feel like a man in order to function like a man, have success, have fights, have a career. My gosh how many blokes have I seen especially in Sweden that were trying to be equal, but had no testosterone in their system as a result? It's all cause and effect. You can, and you have to, be a man in order to be a man. A women needs to feel loved, safe, protected etc etc in order for her hormones to work properly. It's different life goals.

We are flexible enough to take care of things when we have to. But how can anyone even say that we're equal?

3. Women. You know how many times I've seen German women marry African men? I love Africa dearly and would have stayed longer had I been able to, so it's not racist when I say that they are the men with the highest testosterone levels on the planet. You think Italians are macho? They are only a quarter of the way there. But you know what? It's not the beauty of the African male, or the other thing you might be thinking of. It's the fact that with such a man, a woman is finally able to just relax, and after all the stress of equality, that feels like such a relief. Of course these things tend to fall apart eventually unless it's an exceptional partnership. But it does tell you something about the value of all the lovely equality we have achieved in Germany.

Anyways. Sorry, I rant.

Gawd, the headache, now I want to remain single more than ever.

Thank your brave honest opinion (and maybe holds a lot of truths) and your constructive advices .

Sorry. Didn't mean to give you a headache.

You have a lot going for you, you have intelligence and depth. You won't be single forever, trust me.

As for me, I'm not so sure. But then I've done my bit for society, so that's ok.

Some very big gems being dropped here!

I'll hit on a few of these:

What sucks the most about that - cerebral nature makes in incredibly difficult across the board, no matter how virile/feminine a person is in their sexuality. Not only does it cause narrowing of standards but, instinctual behavior and reactions get clipped, one becomes almost too human and not enough animal - guys could walk like cowboys or girls could have very dainty mannerisms but, if they're too cerebral in conversation it can go to reverse a lot of that out (even if the other person they're sort of flirting/bantering with is that cerebral themselves). Going a few steps further cerebral nature also has its own barage of very intense emotions - higher level emotions, and if one injects them into the relationship world and their wants and needs things get even more complicated still.

Have I figured out how to negate this? In short superficial exchanges maybe but, its extremely difficult to really integrate basic/animalistic thinking and reaction back in once you've made a clean divorce with it at some point in your life. I always laugh when I think about Dave DeAngelo's ten points on how he tore on so-called 'smart' guys for being just egotistical, thinking that following instinct was too low brow or that they looked down on guys who had it right as simpletons (though admittedly being in the gender analysis field this long he's probably recanted this position himself already) - some might, but I'd have to throw out there that the biggest myth of all is that the intelligent are supposed to be fully backward compatible and if they aren't their being stubborn; being backward compatible is almost as monumental of a task as someone who lacks intelligence trying to be forward compatible with those who have it. When you attain better and better ways of resolving tasks (on some levels - not instinctual ones usually), you then find yourself being able to relate to fewer and fewer people if your really being yourself and, what's also incredibly diffficult - once those pathways are clipped its almost impossible to then both imagine how you'd think if your IQ or skill set/wisdom were lower, and then the secondary, then tertiary effects that would come with. Life is a struggle for everyone, being two people at once I think on that level is a talent that very few people have the resources for though.




I think you nailed it on the head and in far fewer words than I needed. Reality is very complicated and tricky, drawing the lines, framework, and substance of a societal issue - especially with none of your own firsthand information, is also something that can take years of willful effort. Women may have an advantage of knowing what the societal problems with sexism are and aren't, some may not and overdo it but these I think are a different problem so I won't go into. Guys on the other hand, having less first-hand experience and especially younger guys who haven't had the chance to really analyze these things, have no idea where to stop with it. Hence if anything is questionable or in dodgy territory that they don't understand they'll simply avoid that kind of behavior.

Your right also that testosterone is extremely reactive, as is the frontal lobe of the brain. High confidence boosts testosterone, achievement boosts testosterone, everything good or bad thing that registers on a self-worth level seems to play with it. As a result, if these guys are afraid to be virile, it cuts their secondary sexual behavior down a lot and - on mating level - its as bad as a girl losing form and becoming 'one of the guys' in every sense. Sexists just become accidental beneficiaries to this effect because of their outlook.

can I quote you on that?



Don't forget that there's always been a class aspect to this, for at least the last 1000 years, in the west. It's always been the prerogative of the lower classes to live a healthy life, close to nature, follow their animal nature as far as the Church would allow it. The upper classes always looked down on this and systematically removed themselves to a world that was far more unhealthy. You can see that very much in Britain.

It's part of my evil plan right now to teach a friend of mine, who's a poet and extremely cerebral, the value of massage. My excuse is that he's very ill, but also, he's a bit of a leader and he's already talking about learning some basics from me and passing it on to his friends. Basic things like human touch without any sexual connotation can help you get back into your body and learn to reconnect with the different bits of your being.

Then, of course, there's dance. But I always go on about that.

The only big warning there - not with glow sticks, getting ravey is just another cerebral nature trap; sure it looks cool but, when you're at a club it'll make someone stand out in a BAD way (my friends and I learned this the hard way a while back) - mainly because its artsy rather than sexual.

Don't be so sure.

No. His point was this:

Basically, being egalitarian is neither an advantage nor a disadvantage when it comes to getting girls, since, in his experience, both sexist guys and not-sexist guys have gained girlfriends without difficulty.

100% accurate summary